Episode 12

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Published on:

3rd Sep 2025

Ryan Benson, "The Social Media Menace!"

Sit back, and enjoy story time with Ryan Benson as they recount their journey through becoming a status quo breaking creative! From the power of memes, to running Nutter Butter's tiktok account, and guiding brands through their online presence! So many goodies in this one!

Ryan's Website, The Social Media Menace


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Transcript
Speaker:

Welcome back to the Rise and Flow podcast.

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I'm Ray, I'm one of your co-hosts

here at Info Law Group, and I'm

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excited you're tuning in for another

insightful conversation today.

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We're joined by none other than

the Ryan Benson, also known

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as the Social Media Menace.

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And trust me, once you hear how

he approaches creativity and

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storytelling online, you'll see

exactly how he earned that moniker.

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Ryan wears a lot of hats.

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He's the president of subverse,

partner and creative director

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at Loudmouth Creative Agency.

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The managing editor of Silence

Brand across all these roles.

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He's made a name for himself by pushing

boundaries, blending humor with strategy,

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and turning brands into cultural moments.

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So let's jump in and learn how

Ryan transforms social media from

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a marketing tool into a movement.

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Speaker: Jumping right into things,

I just wanted to know real quick if

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you could, explain to our audience

a little bit about Silence Brand.

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That's mainly how we work with you on

the day-to-day in our attorney-client

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relationship on, you know, we're

a subscriber to the newsletter.

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We follow you guys on LinkedIn.

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So much good information that, we've

already, shared with some of our clients

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in the digital marketing world to, keep

an eye on and keep tabs on 'cause there's

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a lot of good trends that you guys spot.

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And a lot of good insight from,

you know, digital marketing experts

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that is made very easily to digest.

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And yeah, give us a little bit of

information about Silence brand.

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What do you guys do, the newsletter and

even how you guys came up with the name.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like you gave

us an introduction that is far more nice

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than the one that we give ourselves.

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I think we call ourselves an

elite army of internet idiots.

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I wanna say.

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I think those are the words

that we've put together.

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Yeah, but we're all, we're the,

we're the crazy marketing employees

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who probably we're like the, the

land of misfit toys a little bit.

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So we're all the weird ones that

have all collected together.

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And now we just, like, I, I think what

makes us all so unique is that we can't

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help but be on the internet all the time.

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So we try to try to leverage that

information for people that could use it.

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So we're sitting there looking

at all of the weirdest trends,

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memes, formats, stories, headlines

and trying to pass that on.

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Try to put it through a lens of like how

marketers might use this information,

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how brands might use this information,

or just people on the internet.

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And we try to share that in a newsletter.

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The Silence brand name came from.

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I, I don't even know how long, how

old this meme is, but the work of

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archival memes is kind of our study.

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So we figured, let's, let's label this

with something that means something to

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us, which is that original silence, brand

meme that people started to use when,

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when brands really first started to join

the internet and try to sell things.

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And that was the initial response

was, shut up, stop doing this.

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And it still is.

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But that's why we named it after that

meme because we are trying to maybe

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help people approach the internet

in a way that doesn't get them told

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to shut up, but they still hide.

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Speaker: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And you, you made an interesting term,

and this is something that we spoke with

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Dana about in the past who's, you know,

a partner of yours in Silence Brand

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and who's been, who's been a client of

ours, who's been on this podcast before.

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She.

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You know, she gave us a really

interesting perspective on what,

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what you guys mean by archival

history of memes and stuff like that.

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Can you kind of like, dive

in into a little bit, but

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like what you mean by that?

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Because I don't think I, you know,

people, everyone engages with sending

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memes, but what is kind of, how do you

guys look at memes and what, you know,

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what's your take on what a meme is and

the like, impact points that it has

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Speaker 2: on culture and stuff?

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I feel like my soul just came alive.

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No, no one's asked me to explain what,

what an archival meme might mean.

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I, when I first, so in like high

school, I believe for me, which might

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not equate to a lot of other people,

whatever when I was in high school,

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like 2013 was when we were starting to

hear stories about colleges, putting

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out classes for the study of memes.

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And that was when all we

had was like the, the.

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Like the rage faces, like,

are you, you mad bro?

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And like, troll, lo lo lo.

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So we were like, that's a meme.

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But those classes were really about

understanding communication through time

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and what a meme is in communication.

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So I've always been fascinated, but

applying that to the internet, when

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you see a meme today, there's like, I

feel like there's a, there's a chance

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almost always that, that a, a meme in

present day is like the amalgamation

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of like 3, 4, 5, sometimes hundreds

of topics that have just kind of

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snowballed over the last couple decades.

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And there's just so much nuance.

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It's like, it, like, I feel like

there's like a flavor to it.

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Mm-hmm.

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Like you can sip a meme, like

a fine wine and go, ah, yes.

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Yeah.

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It says, notes says notes of

the:

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Yeah.

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So first of all, that's why I love this.

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I love that when we try to explain the

memes that are floating out there, part of

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what we do is try to go, Hey, just so you

know, these are the flavors in this meme.

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And sometimes that means this meme has

trace notes of financial instability

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or, or like, things that brands don't

necessarily consider because they are a

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real reflection of human communication

and not like brand to brand communication.

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Yeah.

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And like that.

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So a lot of what we do is like

dissect that nuance and I think

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that's what what can be so helpful

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Speaker: and that nuance

is important, right?

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Because I think, yeah.

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You know, I think a lot of times creators

and brands or businesses will jump on

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and be like, oh, this meme's trending.

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Let me just participate in it, right?

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Mm-hmm.

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But you know, outside of

just like some type of.

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Funny face or funny, you know, situation

of a real housewife doing something

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on the show or that becomes me.

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Right?

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There, those nuances have importance, like

right, because it could make sense for

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that brand to participate, or it could not

make sense for that brand to participate

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or that creator to participate.

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Right.

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Because it might be other messaging or

communication that, like, once again,

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it's, it's alluding to something or

referencing something that's maybe

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outside the four corners of the meme.

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Yeah.

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And you know, that's important too, right?

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Especially, you know.

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You have a history of like, working with

brands and understanding like the economic

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impact sometimes that engaging in it in

digital marketing might have on them.

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So yeah, I think that's also

something important to mention.

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Yeah.

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Sometimes it either makes sense

for the brand or it doesn't.

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Right.

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And yeah, and not only,

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Speaker 4: and not only that,

but I, I think also like just the

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educational portion of it, right?

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Like, even though it's like fun, it's

like, you know, you're, you're putting

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out the, you know, the, the content

that's kind of trending and stuff.

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But as millennials we also like,

we wanna be kind of caught up

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with, with the trends, right?

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And some of them, I'm not

realizing that what they mean.

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Like, I know I've found myself

where something keeps on popping up

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on my TikTok or something and I'm

like, where does this come from?

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Like, right, where, where's

the, the source of this meme

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and what does it really mean?

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Or like, just a trend, right?

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Like right now there's like the

six seven i, i, if you guys have

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seen that and I was just like.

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Why did all these, like, they keep on

like going after like 6, 7, 6, 7, 6,

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7, and I literally had to go and like

Google it, you know, trying to figure

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out like, why is this trending, right?

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Like, what does it mean?

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And it's so hard

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Speaker 2: to Google sometimes because,

because you're Googling like TikTok sound.

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Kids keep saying six seven

and the Internet's like, ah,

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Speaker 4: yeah, yeah.

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So it's really nice to have, you

know, at least a place where we can

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go and like kind of understand how

it's impacting, you know, the, the

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market, how it's impacting pop culture

you know, in, in multiple ways.

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How do you go about that?

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Like how do you, how do you keep

yourselves kind of up to date

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with kind of those trends and,

and how to digest them and how to

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introduce 'em to, to your audience?

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Speaker 2: Well, first what helps

is that we're all so, so painfully

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online that it never stops.

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So we're constantly like, that's, that's

probably a weakness and a strength, but

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a unique strength to have in this group.

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We're also just in it, that we're

constantly experiencing the culture.

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So to take another step and start

analyzing is not easy, but we're, we're

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kind of primed to do that because of

how much time we spend on our phones.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So first

we're just really online.

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But I think all of us have, we've all,

in this group at least, we've all kind of

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navigated this, really this career path

that has just existed for the first time.

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So it has constantly been, like my

career has constantly been exploring

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what I'm even supposed to do.

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And that means with the change

of the internet, with the

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change of my roles, with like.

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I started my career tweeting and

Twitter doesn't exist anymore.

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It's a different app for different people.

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Things constantly change.

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And I think that we've all been primed

to start really paying attention and in

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our roles where a traditional marketing

role has elements of communication

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from, from branch to person.

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So through that lens, wherever it is

on Twitter, on Instagram, or in my

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case, even doing like in-person events

where we're communicating to people

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like Old, before the pandemic we used,

we used to do these things outside.

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I think they've all taught us to really

pay attention to the pipeline of like

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information from brand to consumer.

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And at least in my experience, I've

really tried to pay attention to that

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pipeline and figure out how best to

communicate information to people that

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doesn't make them feel like they're being.

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Used for money.

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Speaker: Yeah.

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And that's, that's like gotta

be an obstacle sometimes, right?

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Because absolutely

comes like, that doesn't

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Speaker 2: really work.

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It's not really com a compatible

system with capitalism sometimes.

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I was reading a book which now I

can't remember the name of, but

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Benton recommended a book to me

about capitalism and it just has

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a line that said, capitalism is

a uniquely illiterate system.

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So sometimes marketing is in direct

competition with the idea of capitalism.

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Yeah.

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But that's okay.

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Yeah.

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That's created our unique expertise

that we put out in this newsletter now.

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Speaker: Yeah.

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And I, you know, I think that's.

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What I like about marketing so much is

like a lot of times people feel like

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marketing is just advertisements, right?

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Like marketing is just

Hey, do you have a Zi?

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Buy my face.

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Yeah, exactly.

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Do you have a Zi?

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Do you look ugly today?

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Buy our cream.

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Right?

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Do you feel ugly because you might

be, unless you buy our product.

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Yeah.

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Are you depressed?

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Get better health.

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Right?

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Like, like that.

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This podcast is brought

to you by Better Help.

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Yeah.

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Right.

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I'm like, I don't know if you work with

them or not, but no endorsements here.

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Even though you should

get help if you need it.

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Right.

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But yes, the whole idea of marketing

to me is just like how things spread.

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Right.

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And I think that's why memes naturally

became part of digital marketing.

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Kind of like an avenue to do

digital marketing through, right?

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Like think about some of

like the most popular.

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Accounts on Instagram

are meme accounts, right?

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They're just like either creating

memes or sometimes brands who just

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make really good memes, right?

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Because, you know, if a picture's

worth a thousand words, a

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meme's worth a million, right?

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It just helps with like

virality, shareability.

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So I think it's just understanding

like the power of a meme, right?

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Absolutely.

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And it's just funny because that's

what marketing at Z is, right?

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Like, it's like you don't necessarily,

like you could become a marketing

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genius these days without ever having

set foot in a classroom learning

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about marketing in general, right?

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You just have actually maybe

participating it since you were a kid.

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Well, not a kid, but

like maybe a teenager.

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Well, jumping on Instagram right now,

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Speaker 2: right?

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We do live in a timeline where you

could have been raised by the internet.

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We're at that point.

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Yeah.

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So it is possible.

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Yeah.

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Speaker: Yeah.

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And you could have the power to.

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You know, they're, we're seeing kids

now, you know, with the power to share

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things globally and distribute a meme or

a message to millions of people in one go.

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Right.

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And

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Speaker 2: yeah, and I feel that's the

power of memes is that, like I touched on

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earlier, but like, the potential to have

so many topics like baked in, but also

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the fact that it's like, it's one image.

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There's, you usually are not seeing

an original caption with a meme

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when it's ripped from page to page,

but you see the whole picture.

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So whatever message is baked into

that is now extremely shareable.

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So yeah, it can go global.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely.

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And with some of these like global

companies, you know, these, these major,

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you know, brands, kind of jumping on

on some of the, these, these trends, I

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have seen kind of a shift towards that

with a lot of big, you know, brands.

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Are there any in particular that

you kind of, you, you really

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enjoy and you're just like.

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Yeah.

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Like they're, they're doing it right.

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Or, or some of the brands that

inspired you to be like, okay.

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Yeah.

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Like they, they get it.

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Speaker 2: Hmm.

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I feel like every brand has

their, their time in the sun and

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sometimes that doesn't always last.

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But, but growing up, like Wendy's, of

course, original, just giving it back

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to the people that dish it out to them.

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Denny's just being insane as a,

like, nano puss is one of my all time

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favorite things that ever happened.

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Um hmm.

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Bark's Root beer.

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Oh, they're insane.

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And brisk Canada also insane.

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I love them.

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I don't think they make any sense,

but I think that's, that's, that's

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what we need a little more of.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Like I feel like products like that too.

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Even Arizona, Arizona is a good

account or a good example of this.

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Like no one needs to be reminded

what a can of Arizona is.

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We've, we've known our entire

lives and they're still there,

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still doing the same thing.

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So this, like, their, their

opportunity is to be complimentary

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to what we already know.

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Everything they put out is

complimentary to what we already know.

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They're not gonna teach us something

new about the product unless they

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release Arizona coffee in a can.

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Then that's a new product.

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So to just have fun in that space

and to play in that space keeps

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people entertained, keeps people

saying, yeah, I love Arizona.

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Yeah.

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And not because they were

convinced to buy it necessarily.

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Yeah.

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Speaker: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And I,

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Speaker: I think, you know, that

is like a natural transition to

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what you've done in the past.

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Right.

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I felt

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Speaker 2: it coming.

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Speaker: Yeah.

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And I think it is, like, that's

such a good example because I think

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people who know TikTok and know the

internet probably have, maybe have

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come across someone mentioning.

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Nut butter in the past year or two.

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Right.

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And nutter butter account and

it's absurdity and you are kind of

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like, the source are kind of like

the brains behind that in a way.

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Right.

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They might not want to hear you

use that, that language, but

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I know that they are.

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There was already the, while you were

there, there was already news about it.

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Right.

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There was already articles and everything.

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So, I know they probably don't want

to hear that, but you've already

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kind of like been touted while

there as the brains behind it.

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Right.

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And kind of the, and I, can you

take us just through that, right.

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Because when you mentioned Arizona,

you, you were talking about you

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were just talking about, hey, the,

the point of Arizona participating

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online in this conversation.

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Right.

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The cultural conversation.

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Not to re, you know, convince

people to buy their product over

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any other iced tea product, maybe.

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Right, right.

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But it's just there to be like.

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A reminder of who they are and maybe

another avenue to connect with people.

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Right.

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It's a legacy brand, right?

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Kind of like nut butter's

a legacy brand, right?

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But like why and that, and maybe

that's what gives it the opportunity

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to be a little bit more absurd.

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But it's better than just being

like, Hey, are you craving

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a peanut know buttery snack?

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Right?

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Like, yes.

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So we'd love to know like

more break that down because I

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think a lot of people see that.

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I think a lot of millennials see that

and they're like, I don't get what's

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going on with nutter butter account.

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They do,

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Speaker 2: but

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Speaker: yeah.

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Yeah.

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Can you, can you kind of

like break that down for us?

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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So I'll start by saying that I have

seen not too many videos, but I've

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seen a couple videos of very millennial

people saying, this is bad and I

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don't understand why, and I can't

really tell you why, but I hate it.

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Which unfortunately just proves my point.

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Cor to be correct because they're

talking about it, which is the

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brand awareness that we were

looking for in the first place.

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So our contract, while I was

working on that brand, our main

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priority was brand awareness.

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And so realizing that I think was

the superpower or the unlock that

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got us to that point of now po

like now where they're at posting

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diabolical, absurd nightmare, if

you will, videos to the internet.

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Which is of course insane for

a peanut butter cookie brand to

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be dabbling in analog horror.

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But when I first started, we were

trying the traditional route of

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like, look at our new product,

look at this new limited edition.

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I think right when I started,

they were doing nutter butter

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cakesters, which don't exist anymore.

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So we have learnings of like,

we can announce a new product,

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sure, but no one will care.

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So we, I took a look back to.

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I tried to, to give like a,

to, to search for an overview

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look of who Nutter butter is.

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And all I could find was this like

:

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man who's going have another nutter

butter, peanut butter sandwich cookie.

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And there's like a weird little

song and it's really horrifying.

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So I just kept bringing it up.

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I was like, we need to make

more content out of this.

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Do we have the rights to use this?

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Can I put this in new content?

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Eventually, I think I just broke

their will to say no to me.

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And so I started introducing that and now

we live in a world where the nutter butter

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man haunts people's dreams on a daily.

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The real learning was like, yeah,

we can post these memes that someone

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might share in Slack about like having

nut butter during your office break,

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but they're getting like 10 likes.

396

:

We could try something else and we tried

something else and it got the attention.

397

:

And so I, I will preface this by

saying this almost never happens.

398

:

But somehow during this initial,

like, let's try this weirdness out.

399

:

Let's see if it works.

400

:

We got a report back that showed that

Gen Z sales had actually gone up,

401

:

which is like, that doesn't happen.

402

:

You don't do that from social media.

403

:

Nobody cares.

404

:

Yeah.

405

:

Somehow I think we just took 'em

by so much surprise that they were

406

:

like, not only am I gonna follow,

but maybe I'll grab a pack of Nutter

407

:

Butters at the store next week.

408

:

Yeah.

409

:

So I think the, the real lesson

there was learning or listening to

410

:

the fact that nobody wanted to have

a normal conversation about mm-hmm.

411

:

Nutter Butters, because nobody has a

normal conversation about Nutter butters.

412

:

They're having weird conversations, so

we might as well give them something to

413

:

Speaker 4: talk about.

414

:

Yeah.

415

:

Speaker 2: And it works.

416

:

Speaker 4: And I, I, I love the fact

that, that you tapped into that old

417

:

marketing style, like, or at least you

know, the, the old you know, promos.

418

:

Because it really goes to show the shift

in like, the generational shift, right?

419

:

Like Yeah.

420

:

You can kind of see that progression

of like, you know, how you

421

:

can, how different generations

react to certain things, right?

422

:

Like, you go back to like the old, like

the:

423

:

Where they're targeting, you

know, some of these like boomers

424

:

and like, they're very like, oh,

little it's little song and dance.

425

:

Like, really, like it works for them.

426

:

Yeah, yeah.

427

:

Like the old school commercials.

428

:

And then you saw like a shift, right?

429

:

Like in the eighties and the nineties,

like, especially like targeting,

430

:

like the younger millennials, like

at that point where it was more like,

431

:

you remember that book the tipping

point where they're like talking

432

:

about like the, the, you know, the.

433

:

Super spreaders and like these, like, they

were really targeting like the cool, the

434

:

cool people to sell you the stuff, right?

435

:

Then all of a sudden you had like Michael

Jackson trying to sell you Pepsi, and

436

:

like you had like these, like the,

the, the popular people trying to,

437

:

you know, push these things on you.

438

:

And it's, I love the fact that now,

you know, you see this complete shift

439

:

where it's like, it's no longer that,

yeah, sure there's influencers, sure.

440

:

But even that, like, there's,

there's already a shift away from

441

:

like the influencer marketing.

442

:

There's a shift almost to like,

back to the people, right?

443

:

Where anybody could, you

know, push something and all

444

:

of a sudden it goes viral.

445

:

And, you know, I think it goes, goes to

your point that it's like, it, it, it's

446

:

different in that shift and people are

consuming marketing in a different way.

447

:

What, what do you think are some of

the trends that now you're seeing even

448

:

that, like even going from influencer

marketing to like some of these

449

:

new style of, you know, marketing.

450

:

Have you, is there any insight that

you can kind of give us that you've

451

:

seen in as far as like a shift,

especially with the new, you know,

452

:

gen Z generations and all that?

453

:

Speaker 2: Yeah, so I would

say that I've been actively

454

:

paying attention to this kind of

conversation for the last like five.

455

:

I mean, this conversation's been going

our entire lives or whatever, but like the

456

:

real corporate entities having a, a come

to Jesus moment with their marketing and

457

:

being like, how do we get to the people?

458

:

So the last five, six years,

all I've been hearing is like.

459

:

Be genuine, be authentic.

460

:

Mm-hmm.

461

:

That's really hard for some

comp like large companies to

462

:

understand what that looks like.

463

:

So traditionally, they have been doing it

through influencers that they find to be

464

:

authentic or genuine to their audience.

465

:

And so that's one way of saying

like, deliver our brand message

466

:

to your audience, please,

and we'll give you a check.

467

:

That's not really enough for people as

we're traveling through the economy.

468

:

I don't know, whatever journey we're

on right now, that is not enough.

469

:

And so some brands have, well,

okay, a lot of brands have been

470

:

asking themselves how to do this.

471

:

Some have done it well, some haven't.

472

:

Some are still figuring it out.

473

:

Smart brands will listen to their

audience, figure out what conversations

474

:

they're having, and figure out the

best way to be in the, to show up in

475

:

those conversations authentically.

476

:

A lot.

477

:

More, plenty, more brands

will just interject themselves

478

:

into the conversation.

479

:

Yeah.

480

:

I think what made Nutter Butter so

successful is that the content creation

481

:

was a direct result of the community

management we were doing every day.

482

:

And it reflected the weirdness, the

insights, the weird comments, maybe

483

:

even direct words or messages from

people that were interacting with it.

484

:

So it felt like a back and forth.

485

:

Instead of paying an influencer to

just speak at an audience, which

486

:

is maybe traditionally what happens

it's, I think it's, it's hard for.

487

:

I don't even know how to

describe what I'm trying to say.

488

:

I think it's hard for large entities

with large budgets to understand that

489

:

all it takes is a conversation sometimes.

490

:

And so they think if they're not spending

a hundred thousand dollars on a video

491

:

with an influencer that will go up and

play for one minute and then be forgotten

492

:

about it's difficult to understand where

they're putting that money and if, if

493

:

that equation is coming out correctly when

they just need to understand if, if people

494

:

are hearing them and talking to them.

495

:

I do think that there is

a big shift toward this.

496

:

It's, it's on people like us, I think,

to, to do it correctly so that we

497

:

can help manage this, this two-way

conversation between consumer and brands.

498

:

I'm trying to think of brands that

I think that are doing this really

499

:

well and sometimes that's hard.

500

:

Yeah.

501

:

I do think that Arizona is probably

a good example, even though

502

:

they're just like shit posting.

503

:

They're still in conversation with

their audience and now there's this,

504

:

like, this undying love for a 99

cent can of, well, maybe 99 cent.

505

:

That's like, that's part of the drama.

506

:

That's part of what there's like

people that go and try to find the

507

:

places that are selling them for too

much and try to cancel them online.

508

:

There's that like, there's like an Arizona

pack, like people feel like they belong

509

:

to the Arizona family because of that

interaction and now they're diehards

510

:

whether they even like the product or not.

511

:

Speaker 4: Yeah.

512

:

Well, I

513

:

Speaker 2: hope I answered that question.

514

:

Speaker 4: No, I, and no,

and I think that that's it.

515

:

Like, I think it's, it's

sometimes it's community driven.

516

:

It's, you know, it's people driven rather

than the brand driving the, the message.

517

:

I think a, a great example is

this whole thing with like,

518

:

target, target and Costco, right?

519

:

As people were starting to Oh, yeah.

520

:

Cancel target.

521

:

It's not like Costco just pumped in a

bunch of marketing dollars and did that.

522

:

The people did it.

523

:

The people went into the target

comments and just started like

524

:

attacking Target and starting promote,

you know, to promote, you know, a, a.

525

:

A club membership style business,

which is, it's wild, right?

526

:

That like all have their own

527

:

Speaker 2: volition, like

nobody's paying them to do

528

:

Speaker 4: that.

529

:

Right, right.

530

:

And now I, you know, I've come across

like Costco influencers where they just

531

:

go in there and they're just like, Hey,

like Lugg at what they have at Costco.

532

:

Well, you've

533

:

Speaker 2: seen the boom guys, right?

534

:

We're in a culture of Costco.

535

:

Yeah, yeah.

536

:

That there's, there's a girl

called the Cost, the Costco Ho.

537

:

Speaker 4: And like, she, like I

538

:

Speaker 2: do, I do love those people

and I follow them before I go to Costco

539

:

so that I know what to look out for.

540

:

Speaker 4: Yeah.

541

:

And that's great because like

to your point, right, it's, it's

542

:

not about the marketing dollars

that they're pumping in, right?

543

:

It's, again, it's, it's about just

being part of that, that conversation,

544

:

like you said, being part of it,

you know, and it, like I said,

545

:

sometimes it's, it's the people that

create these trends and you know.

546

:

There's nothing a brand can do,

whether it's positive or negative.

547

:

Right.

548

:

Sometimes it

549

:

Speaker 2: true backfires.

550

:

Speaker 4: I

551

:

Speaker 2: do think like investing

energy into making people feel so

552

:

involved and that they belong, that

they want to create content for your

553

:

brand is like the ultimate pathway.

554

:

And we've worked with, with brands

who like some, I think that this to me

555

:

is an ultimate tell of the community.

556

:

If a brand is like Coplay as their

consumer or if they're sharing

557

:

content from their consumer.

558

:

Mm-hmm.

559

:

And to me it is like,

those are your two choices.

560

:

I don't think that a brand should be

trying to compete with their consumer when

561

:

it comes to showing off how the product

is used, at least on organic social.

562

:

That's my world.

563

:

I don't make commercials.

564

:

I don't, I, when I worked for

Chipotle, I was not part of the team

565

:

that was making those bowls with more

meat than you've ever seen on tv.

566

:

I dunno.

567

:

I think I'm allowed to say that.

568

:

Speaker: Yeah.

569

:

Yeah.

570

:

And I mean, I think that's important

for brands to recognize, and correct me

571

:

if I'm wrong, maybe you two know this.

572

:

Is McDonald's coming out with like

a new grimace shake right now?

573

:

Speaker 4: No, it's, it's not,

574

:

Speaker 2: I don't think

it's a grimace shake.

575

:

Mm-hmm.

576

:

It's, it's this like.

577

:

McDonald's world or McDonald's

universe or something.

578

:

It's just called like a

McDonald's something shake.

579

:

It's

580

:

Speaker 4: an adult.

581

:

It's an adult.

582

:

An adult Happy Meal.

583

:

Basically.

584

:

That's another one of the, that's

how they're like promoting it.

585

:

But it's

586

:

Speaker 2: all like, it's no

partners, it's all McDonald's.

587

:

Right?

588

:

It's their own Yep.

589

:

Thing.

590

:

So it's not like the cactus

Jack, but it's like inside of

591

:

Speaker 4: the McDonald's universe.

592

:

And they're tapping in.

593

:

They're tapping into nostalgia.

594

:

Right.

595

:

So like they're using the old

characters and it comes with, you

596

:

know, the little toy in the meal.

597

:

And so obviously it comes,

yeah, with the milkshake, that

598

:

kind of, I think the milkshakes

599

:

Speaker 2: killing me.

600

:

Speaker 4: Kind of grima, right?

601

:

Yeah.

602

:

It's like purple and all that.

603

:

But instead of like a toy, it comes

with a little tin box that's like

604

:

kind of retro looking, oh wait.

605

:

And inside the tin box

there's actual stuff that.

606

:

I think millennials tend to use, you got

stickers to put on your water bottles.

607

:

You have like, you know, a little

postcard, like a vintage postcard.

608

:

So things like that.

609

:

But yeah, it's, it's actually an, an

adult happy meal that they're trying to,

610

:

Speaker 2: to put Yeah, I'm okay

with everything except that shake.

611

:

The shake.

612

:

I, they might be going for

another grimace shake moment,

613

:

like trying to feed it to see it.

614

:

Yeah.

615

:

I, I have mixed feelings ',cause the

whole grimace shake moment was not

616

:

necessarily something that McDonald's

set themselves up for, but it was

617

:

something that they took credit for.

618

:

And so I mixed feelings.

619

:

The whole joke was that

the Grish shake killed you.

620

:

Speaker: Yeah.

621

:

And that's what I was saying.

622

:

'cause I've already seen people take

the new shake and and start doing it,

623

:

start doing the whole, I haven't seen

that, but that does not shock me.

624

:

It was only a matter of time.

625

:

That's why I'm like, maybe they're just

trying to like, and you know, that's like,

626

:

can always be in their back pocket, right?

627

:

They can just be like, Hey, yeah, Mrs.

628

:

Birthday again and have a new grima cookie

and now they're gonna, you know, let let

629

:

people do what they want with the grima.

630

:

Right.

631

:

Speaker 4: And the problem is that

you don't know what's gonna happen

632

:

too, like in the future, right.

633

:

Like how these trends are gonna

affect the future generation.

634

:

For example, my 7-year-old is terrified of

grimace now because of the grimace shakes.

635

:

So I could, I could

already see it like, oh no.

636

:

Yeah.

637

:

Like give it like I know.

638

:

And then they

639

:

Speaker 2: took ownership

of it a little bit.

640

:

Right, exactly.

641

:

Which almost endorses the idea when, when

I saw them jump on, I was a little afraid.

642

:

'cause I was like, Hey,

the claim here is that.

643

:

Kills you, and you just said it might.

644

:

Yeah,

645

:

Speaker 4: yeah.

646

:

Yeah.

647

:

So a again, like, you know, a lot of, a

lot of marketing really, you have to look

648

:

at kind of where it's landing, right?

649

:

Sure.

650

:

Like you might be targeting a certain

audience, but consequently it's

651

:

targeting also, you know, maybe a

younger audience that might have a

652

:

negative outlook on, on, you know,

that marketing, which is also very

653

:

interesting to, to kind of see what the

future repercussions will be, you know?

654

:

Mm-hmm.

655

:

Speaker 2: No, it's a good point to

consider that like, even though you might

656

:

be saying something that has a certain

nuance, you are not speaking to everyone

657

:

at the same time that understands that.

658

:

Yeah.

659

:

So you might be saying different things

to different people without realizing it.

660

:

And I like the, the analogy

that comes to mind on this

661

:

topic is how Jonah Hill and, oh.

662

:

21 Jump Street, Seth Rogan.

663

:

Oh

664

:

Speaker 3: yeah.

665

:

Speaker 2: Jonah Hill and Seth

Rogan pretend to be cops, but

666

:

like they're trying to speak

the lingo and not get caught.

667

:

That's pretty much what

we're doing as brands.

668

:

Most of the time, brands will hire

someone who already knows how to

669

:

speak the lingo, so there's not

like this, like, are you a cop?

670

:

But mm-hmm.

671

:

There still is like,

672

:

Speaker 3: yeah.

673

:

Like,

674

:

Speaker 2: yeah, McDonald's can go and be

like, ha ha, the Grish Shake might kill

675

:

you, but they're not gonna tweet, like,

just killed myself with the Grish shake.

676

:

And that's on the same level in the topic.

677

:

That's just where they're, they're

placing their brand guardrail.

678

:

Like

679

:

Speaker 4: Yeah.

680

:

Speaker 2: The topic itself

is not owned by you, and so

681

:

people are taking it anywhere.

682

:

There's a lot of consideration

that needs to happen.

683

:

I'm not saying they did it wrong, I

wasn't in that room, but I've definitely

684

:

been in the room where people are

like, Hey, should we use this sound?

685

:

And I'm like, oh.

686

:

As someone who's been on the internet

too much over the last decade, I can

687

:

tell you that that sound actually comes

from someone who is being made fun of

688

:

and like, like there's, like, I'm, I'm

the one in the back with the wall with

689

:

the string connected to everything.

690

:

And I'm like, actually,

691

:

Speaker 3: yeah, this

692

:

Speaker 2: topic through, through

a timeline of six years actually

693

:

connects to something horrible.

694

:

Speaker 4: You're like, you're

like the mean, you're like the

695

:

Speaker 2: right from like

always sunny where he's like,

696

:

Speaker 4: yeah.

697

:

He's like,

698

:

Speaker 2: that's me going, don't,

don't post the specific TikTok trend.

699

:

It's, it's.

700

:

Racist, like, yeah, yeah.

701

:

It's bad

702

:

Speaker: somehow, I promise.

703

:

And I think that's like important, right?

704

:

'cause a lot of times people might

see like brands posting things, right?

705

:

And they're being like, oh, there is that

intern again, just going running wild.

706

:

But there are considerations

that need to take place, right?

707

:

Like, there are, there, there is

a method to the madness, right?

708

:

You don't just post absurdity, you don't

just post certain things just because

709

:

you're like, this will catch eyes, right?

710

:

Like, there is repercussions or

there, there, there's ways to

711

:

be strategic about these things.

712

:

And there's a lot of consideration that

goes into place because once again,

713

:

you know, there are people who are

going to be, you know, watching, right?

714

:

There are people watching, and they will,

you know, if you're not connecting the

715

:

dots, they're connecting to the dots.

716

:

And now they're, oh yeah, it's

gonna be a ratio comment, right?

717

:

Like, mm-hmm.

718

:

Speaker 2: Yeah, I've been, I've

been ratioed as a brand before.

719

:

I think.

720

:

Not, not ever like horribly,

but it does happen.

721

:

There's, even, even when you have a

well-intentioned moment, like there's a

722

:

particular tweet that went viral as nutter

butter that referenced the letter n and

723

:

anytime a brand, I didn't know this as,

as someone who had been on the internet

724

:

for, you know, 15 solid years, like

straight years of being on the internet.

725

:

Up until that point I did not know

that when brands reference the letter

726

:

n there's an army of assholes who

are ready to come spell the N word

727

:

out letter by letter no matter what.

728

:

Guaranteed every single time.

729

:

Yeah.

730

:

Now when you search Nutter

butter n it comes up

731

:

Speaker 3: Yeah.

732

:

Speaker 2: And it comes up as the thread

and it comes up as fan videos of people

733

:

screenshotting the thread lessons.

734

:

Yeah, absolutely.

735

:

Yeah, there's just, there's, there's

a particular nuance with the internet

736

:

and it, well, nuances, I guess.

737

:

Yeah.

738

:

In so many different ways that

you have to pay attention to

739

:

before trying to be that cop who's

pretending to be a high schooler.

740

:

Speaker 3: Yeah.

741

:

Speaker: And I think what's great

about Silence brand is that it's almost

742

:

like getting your analysis, right?

743

:

So if people who are working

with brands or, you know, mainly

744

:

small business owners too, right?

745

:

Because mm-hmm.

746

:

We're, we're talking, you, you, you work

with a lot of like, big companies, right?

747

:

These big brands, but obviously

there's a lot of smaller companies,

748

:

smaller businesses that are still

engaging in social media, still

749

:

engaging in digital marketing, and

still can have the same issues, right?

750

:

Like they can still you know,

communicate the wrong thing.

751

:

And how do they, like,

how do they avoid that?

752

:

Right?

753

:

Because at the end of the day,

they're not digital marketing experts.

754

:

They might just be the founder, they

might just be the proprietor, and

755

:

they're engaging in social media,

trying to, you know, in the past it's.

756

:

Been jackpots for them, but also

in the same end, it can also be the

757

:

destruction of their business, right?

758

:

Yeah.

759

:

And there's less anti frag

fragility in that sense, right?

760

:

Because brands will survive

one bad tweet, right?

761

:

Or one bad campaign, or multiple

bad campaigns sometimes, but a

762

:

smaller business can't, right?

763

:

Mm-hmm.

764

:

Because also you're, if you're personally

tied to it now, the brand's not racist.

765

:

You are literally racist, right?

766

:

Or whatever it may be.

767

:

Or you might be, you know,

homophobic, whatever, right?

768

:

You don't want to cross those lines

unintentionally because you retweeted

769

:

something or you whatever, right?

770

:

You kind of like participated

in a conversation that maybe,

771

:

probably shouldn't have, right?

772

:

Mm-hmm.

773

:

So I think that's why science brand's

so great, because it gives someone

774

:

like myself who's like, oh wow.

775

:

Like what, what does six seven mean?

776

:

And I can't Google it, but,

hey, s already in my inbox.

777

:

Tell me what it is.

778

:

Tell me how to use it,

if I need to use it.

779

:

And, you know.

780

:

I think that's why it's important,

and I think that's why it helps me

781

:

digest what's going on on the internet.

782

:

And you know, I, I just, you know,

I, I find that so much valuable.

783

:

It's so much value there.

784

:

'cause once again, not everyone has access

to a digital marketing expert who knows.

785

:

I mean, exactly what's going on right

786

:

Speaker 2: now.

787

:

One of my favorite things to do is to like

lower dump, kind of like what I just did

788

:

and be like, Hey, this trend is popular.

789

:

You will see it, it is easy to do.

790

:

Don't do it.

791

:

It, it sends the wrong message.

792

:

It is accidentally racist

or, you know, whatever.

793

:

I love, I love to share.

794

:

Yeah.

795

:

'Cause those things pop up where

like no one realizes that the audio

796

:

is actually from like, you know,

a clan rally or something insane.

797

:

Yeah.

798

:

I'm not saying that's a, a specific

example that I've seen, but like, you

799

:

know, it, it will be things like that.

800

:

Like, oh, actually the guy

reciting that poem is a Nazi.

801

:

Yeah.

802

:

You know, weird little

nuanced bits that Yeah.

803

:

Especially in, yeah.

804

:

Well, yeah.

805

:

Not to be an extremist, but especially

today where we have the White House

806

:

saying God knows what from day to day.

807

:

Mm-hmm.

808

:

Sometimes it's best to just

ask, ask around, have a second

809

:

opinion and make sure you're not

aligning with the wrong thing.

810

:

Speaker 4: Right.

811

:

Right.

812

:

And then, and I think also in like this

day and age, like especially for small

813

:

businesses, they also have to really be

careful with like their digital footprint.

814

:

I just, not even just them, but like

even their family members, you know?

815

:

'cause I've definitely seen trends

where they, you know, destroy small

816

:

businesses, not necessarily because of

their marketing, but because the daughter

817

:

of the owner posted a picture on her

Instagram, like, you know what I mean?

818

:

Like affiliating themselves

and all of a sudden mm-hmm.

819

:

It gets back to the brand on

a different platform and all

820

:

of a sudden it's like, boom.

821

:

They, they dox on, they, they

completely just cancel them.

822

:

So.

823

:

I think that it's definitely important

to do your research as far as everything,

824

:

right, your digital footprint, but also

where these trends are coming from.

825

:

Speaker 2: Yeah.

826

:

I, I would say like top piece of

advice if you're looking at a trend

827

:

is please click the sound and look

at other people's, like, like, please

828

:

consume like five to 10 versions of the

trend before you try to get in on it.

829

:

Just so you see the vibe.

830

:

Yeah.

831

:

And if, if the vibe is not passing

the vibe check, just skip it.

832

:

Speaker 3: Yeah.

833

:

Yeah.

834

:

It's

835

:

Speaker 2: okay.

836

:

There will be plenty more.

837

:

Yeah.

838

:

I think that like with the rise

of trend-based organic social

839

:

strategies and, and being reactive

and constantly commenting on culture,

840

:

is that like some brands are set

up to where that's all they do.

841

:

And so that's just kind of their thing and

we don't necessarily need to emulate it.

842

:

Not everyone needs to be Wendy's.

843

:

But also there's, there's

something new every day now.

844

:

Like, you don't, you don't need,

it's, you're not going to miss out

845

:

just because you couldn't get on that

one trend that came out on Monday.

846

:

People might still be

doing it by Saturday.

847

:

Yeah.

848

:

It's okay.

849

:

Speaker 4: Yeah.

850

:

What do you, what do you think, like,

as far as like, you know, if a business

851

:

owner is listening right now to things

like, what do you think the ratio of like

852

:

being a consum, like a internet consumer,

like you're not just consuming social

853

:

media versus the creator portion of it.

854

:

Like what do you think the, the ratio

should be like to really get a good

855

:

gauge, number one, and then number two

you know, how often do you think, or like,

856

:

do you think it's, it's important for

them to try to push, like maybe create

857

:

new trends versus jumping on old ones?

858

:

Speaker 2: I have this like metaphor that

I've not fully polished, but did you ever

859

:

have one of those, like, they were like

a, it was like a book you open and then

860

:

there was two plexiglass sheets in it.

861

:

You traced through it and it would

reflect the drawing on the other side.

862

:

Speaker 4: I mean, I remember

'em, I never had 'em,

863

:

Speaker 2: but, so I try to like make

this analogy where like the left side

864

:

is culture and then when you're drawing,

that's like what you put out as the brand.

865

:

And if you're like a plus student

at what you're doing, eventually you

866

:

stop tracing and you start drawing.

867

:

Mm-hmm.

868

:

That's kind of my analogy for reflecting

culture versus influencing culture.

869

:

And when, when brands or companies

or even creators start out, like

870

:

a lot of what we do is reference.

871

:

'cause we're like, I, I know.

872

:

I see ha ha funny.

873

:

Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

874

:

I know

875

:

Speaker 2: that's funny.

876

:

Look, it's funny when I do it too.

877

:

But as you hone that skill, hopefully

you're not doing that forever.

878

:

Because if, if like Van Gogh

was still tracing, we probably

879

:

wouldn't think that he's amazing.

880

:

Yeah.

881

:

And also like if you think of like

Anna Wintour, if, if we found out

882

:

Anna Wintour was just like copying.

883

:

I don't know.

884

:

I'm not in the fashion world.

885

:

Another Anna Wintour.

886

:

Yeah.

887

:

We probably wouldn't think

that she's that amazing.

888

:

So like to me it's a skill that

you hone trying to communicate

889

:

in a culturally forward way.

890

:

And that comes from a certain degree

of consuming culture and not just

891

:

like reflecting everything you see.

892

:

However, do you know, here's

kind of a deep cut of a meme.

893

:

Have you ever seen the video of

the guy where he's like, I ain't

894

:

never seen two pretty best friends.

895

:

Always one of 'em gotta be ugly.

896

:

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

897

:

Okay.

898

:

Was that And that, that

was like an audio, right?

899

:

Like it was also Yeah, he

went viral for that video.

900

:

Come to find out, he just reads

tweets, so he never wrote that.

901

:

Yeah.

902

:

So that kind of takes away the, that

kind of takes away the whole like, right.

903

:

Yeah.

904

:

He, he just reads popular phrases

and then becomes famous for

905

:

reading them with his voice.

906

:

So I'm not saying there could be,

there's an entire career out there if you

907

:

want to just be reflective of culture.

908

:

It might pay, but it

might not be rewarding.

909

:

Speaker: Yeah.

910

:

I mean, that's the same thing with

people who like go and just, you know,

911

:

they'll see viral tweets and then just

retweet it or like put it on threads.

912

:

Right.

913

:

And yeah, they go viral because proven

they go viral, but then people will

914

:

out them and be like, you just, you

know, like you didn't write that.

915

:

Speaker 2: You just, yeah.

916

:

And they don't, like, some

brands do act as aggregators.

917

:

They kind of just respond to culture

always, and that's kind of their thing.

918

:

But you will just be, you will

create a reputation for being

919

:

reflective and not innovative.

920

:

I, I think that like, it's not necessarily

a problem if that's what you're going for.

921

:

Mm-hmm.

922

:

But if you want that, like, we

want people to, to listen to us and

923

:

think of our ideas as legendary and

innovative and they want, we won't be

924

:

on the cutting edge of the industry.

925

:

You won't do that by parroting

everyone around you forever.

926

:

Yeah.

927

:

Speaker 4: No.

928

:

Yeah.

929

:

And we, and, and we've

seen that backfire too.

930

:

I think, like, you know, on TikTok,

especially when, when it was

931

:

really kind of dance driven, right?

932

:

Mm-hmm.

933

:

Like early, early years of, of TikTok,

there's a lot of dances that were

934

:

starting to happen, and eventually people

started catching on, Hey, wait a second.

935

:

Like, that dance was created by the

smaller creator, and now this big creator

936

:

is doing it, and all of a sudden there's

a big backlash against the big creator.

937

:

Yeah.

938

:

For not giving them credit.

939

:

Right.

940

:

I mean, I think that goes

for, for any trend, right?

941

:

A lot of the times, if it's created

by a smaller brand or a smaller

942

:

creator and all of a sudden, you know,

it's getting pushed out by these, by

943

:

these big entities or big creators,

it could be a negative thing, right?

944

:

And get mm-hmm.

945

:

You can get that backlash for.

946

:

Basically stealing content.

947

:

Right.

948

:

Speaker 2: Did, do you

recall the Renegade dance?

949

:

Like Renegade?

950

:

Renegade?

951

:

Yeah.

952

:

The Renegade.

953

:

So that is exactly what happened

with that one, but I, this is,

954

:

I don't know it's relevant.

955

:

I figured you might enjoy this.

956

:

My favorite example of a brand

kind of trying to correct

957

:

that history was Champion.

958

:

They came out with they, so they have

a stitch that's called the Reverse

959

:

Weave, and they partnered with the

dancer who created the Renegade dance,

960

:

and they had her do it backward.

961

:

So they were like reverse

renegade for the reverse weave.

962

:

And then they were like lifting

up the original black creator

963

:

who no one knew because all of

the white girls took the stage.

964

:

Mm-hmm.

965

:

Anyway, sometimes history

can correct itself like that.

966

:

Yeah.

967

:

But yeah, no, it does happen.

968

:

And those brands got involved

with celebrities who took.

969

:

I don't know if they necessarily said I

created this dance, but by becoming the

970

:

first popularized face with it and getting

paid for it, they, they did kind of take

971

:

credit for something that wasn't theirs.

972

:

Speaker 3: Yeah.

973

:

Speaker 2: They did like the, the

influencer and the brand kind of both

974

:

played the cop trying to be, not a cop,

but they were just all the cop together.

975

:

Speaker: Yeah.

976

:

Law.

977

:

This is all just so, I mean,

naturally it's just so you know, we,

978

:

you know, we're a law firm, right.

979

:

And yeah, we work with a lot of

creators and we work with a lot

980

:

of businesses and guess what?

981

:

Everyone's engaging in

digital marketing, right.

982

:

Social media marketing under

trying to understand, trying, you

983

:

know, everyone's just trying to

figure out how this all works.

984

:

Right.

985

:

Right.

986

:

The experts, the, you know, the

people who are just, it's constantly

987

:

Speaker 2: changing.

988

:

Speaker: Yeah.

989

:

Yeah.

990

:

If you're lost, so are we, and I'm so

like interested in it because, you know.

991

:

We, I'm not gonna say we were like the

first law firm to engage in social media.

992

:

Right.

993

:

But we were early on in doing it

in a way that was our own, right.

994

:

Like, there was a lot of educational

social media, like lawyers out there

995

:

and, you know, we're not a huge

accounter or anything like that, but,

996

:

you know, we knew who we work with.

997

:

We work with a lot of people who

are creators and who, you know,

998

:

have YouTubes or whatever, right?

999

:

They're, they're Twitch streamers.

:

00:44:54,444 --> 00:44:57,384

All different types of people

marketing to their own niches.

:

00:44:57,384 --> 00:44:58,374

And we are the same way.

:

00:44:58,374 --> 00:44:58,854

Right.

:

00:44:58,914 --> 00:45:03,984

And we also wanted to do it in a more,

we are also, you know, I almost, it's

:

00:45:03,984 --> 00:45:07,044

like I have a chip on my shoulder

almost with like, when we first started

:

00:45:07,044 --> 00:45:11,374

doing social media it was almost looked

down upon by our own industry, right?

:

00:45:11,374 --> 00:45:13,684

Saying like, totally,

oh, that's so childish.

:

00:45:13,684 --> 00:45:14,794

Why are you on TikTok?

:

00:45:14,794 --> 00:45:16,084

Or why are you making videos?

:

00:45:16,084 --> 00:45:18,604

And you know, you're not even

doing educational videos.

:

00:45:18,604 --> 00:45:20,854

Sometimes you're just

doing like weird videos.

:

00:45:20,854 --> 00:45:24,304

And I'm like, Hey, like

we want to do it this way.

:

00:45:24,634 --> 00:45:26,434

And now it's.

:

00:45:26,974 --> 00:45:30,844

Those same people who are criticizing

it are also engaging it and

:

00:45:30,844 --> 00:45:32,254

also doing it in a cringey way.

:

00:45:32,254 --> 00:45:36,274

And I think, you know, it's cringey

because they don't, they almost don't

:

00:45:36,274 --> 00:45:40,084

have that like self-awareness of

awareness of what's going on, right?

:

00:45:40,084 --> 00:45:42,004

Because you could do cringey stuff, right?

:

00:45:42,004 --> 00:45:42,994

We've done cringey stuff.

:

00:45:43,334 --> 00:45:45,374

But it's, it's strategic, right?

:

00:45:45,374 --> 00:45:48,464

Because we gotta understand what,

what the purpose is for that, right?

:

00:45:48,469 --> 00:45:48,629

Mm-hmm.

:

00:45:48,714 --> 00:45:50,684

It's not all cringey, right?

:

00:45:50,684 --> 00:45:52,394

It's a balance of things we hope

:

00:45:52,514 --> 00:45:52,874

Speaker 2: anyway.

:

00:45:52,904 --> 00:45:53,024

Yeah.

:

00:45:53,504 --> 00:45:56,414

Speaker: And like, we're still learning

at the end of the day, but, you know,

:

00:45:56,414 --> 00:45:58,664

I almost have this chip on my shoulder

when I look at like, other people

:

00:45:58,664 --> 00:46:04,304

from our industry who first criticized

it and didn't wanna participate and

:

00:46:04,304 --> 00:46:07,724

now we're doing it and you know it.

:

00:46:07,724 --> 00:46:10,754

And, but also, you know, they're learning

their own mistakes there as well.

:

00:46:11,114 --> 00:46:13,334

But yeah, I kind of always

carry that with me too.

:

00:46:13,334 --> 00:46:18,314

But because I naturally have

an interest in learning.

:

00:46:18,674 --> 00:46:19,154

Right.

:

00:46:19,214 --> 00:46:22,994

How the whole world is learning

this new like distribution platform

:

00:46:22,994 --> 00:46:26,054

that can be so valuable to a lot of

people, but also if you don't do it

:

00:46:26,054 --> 00:46:27,974

the right way, could be detrimental.

:

00:46:28,034 --> 00:46:29,234

Yeah, that's true.

:

00:46:29,324 --> 00:46:29,774

I do think

:

00:46:30,219 --> 00:46:34,664

Speaker 2: a, a fair amount of

that detriment is only earned by

:

00:46:34,694 --> 00:46:36,914

be acting in like a regardless way.

:

00:46:37,184 --> 00:46:40,304

So I think as long as you're, like, if

you're a, if you're a small business

:

00:46:40,304 --> 00:46:41,564

owner hearing that and you go.

:

00:46:42,194 --> 00:46:45,104

So I should just not make a TikTok or

else people could dox me and cancel me.

:

00:46:45,254 --> 00:46:47,864

Just like have a soul and you'll,

you're like 80% of the way there.

:

00:46:48,409 --> 00:46:49,394

Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah,

:

00:46:49,409 --> 00:46:49,899

Speaker 2: exactly.

:

00:46:49,934 --> 00:46:50,234

Yeah.

:

00:46:50,714 --> 00:46:54,674

Speaker 4: No, I definitely, I think

you hit on, especially like using

:

00:46:54,674 --> 00:46:57,884

Meanses as analogy Ray when we Yeah.

:

00:46:57,884 --> 00:46:58,814

When we first started.

:

00:46:59,024 --> 00:46:59,774

Absolutely.

:

00:46:59,774 --> 00:47:02,504

There's all these attorneys that

were just like, oh, what are you, you

:

00:47:02,504 --> 00:47:05,564

know, on TikTok like, oh, what are

you, you doing dances and all that.

:

00:47:05,804 --> 00:47:09,404

And all of a sudden I, we started

getting attorneys reaching out to

:

00:47:09,404 --> 00:47:11,624

us like, Hey, like, can you help us?

:

00:47:11,624 --> 00:47:15,734

Like, you know, with the TikTok

account and this and that, and it

:

00:47:15,734 --> 00:47:20,854

really, when they do it, I really

saw that meme of what's his name?

:

00:47:20,934 --> 00:47:24,914

Oh, he's, he's in Boardwalk Empire,

but you know, he with the backwards

:

00:47:24,914 --> 00:47:27,204

hat and with like the skateboard oh,

:

00:47:27,414 --> 00:47:28,659

Speaker 2: is it Steve Emmi Buscemi.

:

00:47:28,659 --> 00:47:28,899

Steve

:

00:47:28,899 --> 00:47:28,909

Speaker 4: Boem.

:

00:47:29,214 --> 00:47:29,634

Yeah.

:

00:47:29,694 --> 00:47:30,324

Like how do you do

:

00:47:30,324 --> 00:47:31,014

Speaker 2: fellow kids?

:

00:47:31,344 --> 00:47:31,674

Speaker 4: Yeah.

:

00:47:31,674 --> 00:47:32,574

How you do fellow kid.

:

00:47:32,724 --> 00:47:34,614

That's literally how it came off.

:

00:47:34,704 --> 00:47:36,144

And it's like, sure.

:

00:47:36,144 --> 00:47:38,874

They were doing it and they were

doing kind of similar thing, but

:

00:47:38,874 --> 00:47:41,694

like every time I would watch a

video, that's what I would see.

:

00:47:41,694 --> 00:47:44,094

I would see that meme and

I'm like, like it was forced.

:

00:47:45,024 --> 00:47:46,344

A hundred percent forced.

:

00:47:46,764 --> 00:47:47,304

Speaker 2: Yeah.

:

00:47:47,754 --> 00:47:51,324

One time on nutter butter, we, so.

:

00:47:51,939 --> 00:47:54,099

When I was working at Nutter

Butter, we were alongside all of the

:

00:47:54,099 --> 00:47:57,939

other snack brands that were doing

traditional normal people marketing.

:

00:47:58,029 --> 00:47:58,119

Mm-hmm.

:

00:47:58,359 --> 00:48:01,509

And so they would have campaigns

based around launches and normal

:

00:48:01,509 --> 00:48:05,409

things, and we would be asked to

derive campaigns out of thin air.

:

00:48:05,649 --> 00:48:08,769

So one of our campaigns was we

just pretended we were normal for

:

00:48:08,769 --> 00:48:12,879

April Fools, and we made content

that made us say, or made us feel

:

00:48:12,879 --> 00:48:14,139

like we were looking at that meme.

:

00:48:14,349 --> 00:48:14,379

Oh,

:

00:48:15,189 --> 00:48:15,909

Speaker 3: that's funny.

:

00:48:15,909 --> 00:48:15,969

So

:

00:48:16,569 --> 00:48:20,349

Speaker 2: yeah, that's how we learned

like how un-normal our audience was.

:

00:48:20,349 --> 00:48:23,859

But there's, yeah, there's a

truth to that, to that meme.

:

00:48:23,874 --> 00:48:24,699

I, I see it a lot.

:

00:48:25,899 --> 00:48:26,259

I see.

:

00:48:26,259 --> 00:48:29,289

Not the meme, I see the acts that

make me think of the meme a lot.

:

00:48:29,589 --> 00:48:29,799

Yeah.

:

00:48:29,799 --> 00:48:32,499

But that being said, you have

to start from somewhere, so at

:

00:48:32,499 --> 00:48:33,729

least you're posting something.

:

00:48:35,049 --> 00:48:35,869

Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

:

00:48:36,639 --> 00:48:37,509

Or embracing it.

:

00:48:37,509 --> 00:48:37,749

Right.

:

00:48:37,749 --> 00:48:39,189

Embrace the cringiness.

:

00:48:39,189 --> 00:48:39,369

Right.

:

00:48:39,369 --> 00:48:43,629

Embrace the fact that like,

maybe kids will see you as like.

:

00:48:44,499 --> 00:48:46,719

Weirdly cringey like thing, right?

:

00:48:46,719 --> 00:48:49,119

But maybe that's what's,

what's gonna be, you know?

:

00:48:49,119 --> 00:48:49,329

Speaker 2: Yeah.

:

00:48:49,539 --> 00:48:50,019

Nutter butter.

:

00:48:50,019 --> 00:48:55,189

We started asking ourselves or we

started our measure of success because

:

00:48:55,189 --> 00:48:59,419

again, we, we were no longer measuring

dollars spent on influencers or dollars

:

00:48:59,419 --> 00:49:01,219

spent on PR because there were none.

:

00:49:01,549 --> 00:49:04,939

We were measuring how often

people ask us if we were okay.

:

00:49:06,499 --> 00:49:08,899

That was our new measure of

like, are people interested?

:

00:49:08,899 --> 00:49:12,799

And then you started seeing videos and

posts, like content that people were

:

00:49:12,799 --> 00:49:16,849

going out of their way to not only

make, but then put on their feed all all

:

00:49:16,849 --> 00:49:19,069

about a brand that did nothing for them.

:

00:49:20,329 --> 00:49:20,339

Speaker: Yeah.

:

00:49:20,339 --> 00:49:22,279

I mean, that was, and that was crazy

'cause like a lot of things you

:

00:49:22,279 --> 00:49:25,279

were doing, like it was a backlog.

:

00:49:25,339 --> 00:49:27,889

It was like a year backlog of

like, when it started becoming

:

00:49:27,889 --> 00:49:29,119

something people were commenting.

:

00:49:29,509 --> 00:49:29,689

Right.

:

00:49:29,689 --> 00:49:30,409

Because there were, which was

:

00:49:30,409 --> 00:49:33,809

Speaker 2: weird because when, when

there were headlines, I was like.

:

00:49:34,894 --> 00:49:37,954

Yeah, I've been living this

reality for like two years.

:

00:49:37,954 --> 00:49:38,134

What

:

00:49:38,134 --> 00:49:38,464

Speaker 3: do you mean?

:

00:49:39,154 --> 00:49:39,724

Speaker: Yeah.

:

00:49:40,084 --> 00:49:43,759

And like it was getting commented by

like, you know, like JT Barnetts and Sch

:

00:49:43,759 --> 00:49:47,254

Winnebagos and these people who like just

commented on like, you know, they're like,

:

00:49:48,244 --> 00:49:48,814

Speaker 2: what a brand.

:

00:49:48,934 --> 00:49:54,304

Now it's on, I don't even, it was on

a, a show that I don't watch this last

:

00:49:54,304 --> 00:49:58,624

week, and a bunch of people texted me

saying, oh my God, did you see that Nutter

:

00:49:58,624 --> 00:50:00,184

butter was like mentioned on the show?

:

00:50:00,574 --> 00:50:03,514

And I think it's really cool, but I

don't con, I don't watch that show, so I

:

00:50:03,514 --> 00:50:05,464

don't know the significance in culture.

:

00:50:05,524 --> 00:50:06,964

Apparently it's a really big deal.

:

00:50:07,074 --> 00:50:08,484

But I'm kind of numb to it.

:

00:50:09,174 --> 00:50:10,104

Yeah, I understand.

:

00:50:10,434 --> 00:50:13,254

I did something really loud

that a lot of people have seen.

:

00:50:13,254 --> 00:50:14,034

And I'm sorry.

:

00:50:14,034 --> 00:50:14,844

Or you're welcome.

:

00:50:15,589 --> 00:50:15,879

Yeah.

:

00:50:17,064 --> 00:50:19,914

Speaker: I mean, hey, I think,

you know, I, it's almost.

:

00:50:20,814 --> 00:50:21,834

When people see it.

:

00:50:21,834 --> 00:50:22,074

Right.

:

00:50:22,074 --> 00:50:24,234

I think that's what's, like the cool

thing about the nut butter stuff is

:

00:50:24,234 --> 00:50:28,344

just like, people saw it and like, it's

like it raises question marks and then

:

00:50:28,344 --> 00:50:29,814

it's like, oh, there's a lore here.

:

00:50:29,814 --> 00:50:32,094

Like there's certain references

that are keep on happening and

:

00:50:32,094 --> 00:50:36,714

now I wanna learn more, but, and

now I wanna know what's going on.

:

00:50:36,714 --> 00:50:37,104

Right.

:

00:50:37,104 --> 00:50:39,354

So I think once again, it's

just, it's tapping into that.

:

00:50:39,354 --> 00:50:39,414

Yeah.

:

00:50:39,444 --> 00:50:41,154

Sometimes that's what

content can be, right?

:

00:50:41,544 --> 00:50:41,604

Yeah.

:

00:50:41,604 --> 00:50:42,924

Content can just be fun.

:

00:50:43,134 --> 00:50:45,834

It could be a scavenger

hunt, it can be Easter eggs.

:

00:50:45,864 --> 00:50:51,054

It could be so much that you can tap in

creatively that makes you enjoy doing it.

:

00:50:51,084 --> 00:50:51,624

Right.

:

00:50:51,624 --> 00:50:51,634

Yeah.

:

00:50:51,924 --> 00:50:56,364

And it doesn't have to be formulaic,

but it has to have intention.

:

00:50:56,364 --> 00:50:57,444

It has to have like a purpose.

:

00:50:57,444 --> 00:50:57,684

Right.

:

00:50:57,714 --> 00:50:58,014

Right.

:

00:50:58,134 --> 00:50:59,544

You can't just do it.

:

00:50:59,594 --> 00:51:04,124

It's almost, and you know, before we

wrapped up, I wanted to touch upon like

:

00:51:04,124 --> 00:51:06,134

your take on things like even like, right.

:

00:51:06,194 --> 00:51:08,174

We kind of talked about absurdity, right?

:

00:51:08,204 --> 00:51:11,084

With the nut of butter and a lot

of like, you know, what, what

:

00:51:11,084 --> 00:51:15,434

Wendy's does, but like a new trend

is kind of this outrage, right?

:

00:51:15,434 --> 00:51:19,304

And you know, this comes

along with just, you know.

:

00:51:19,889 --> 00:51:24,569

Trump in general in the past few years

of like, if we outrage people, it

:

00:51:24,569 --> 00:51:27,269

spreads our word and it benefits us.

:

00:51:27,269 --> 00:51:29,879

At the end of the day, brands

are starting to do that.

:

00:51:29,879 --> 00:51:30,179

Right?

:

00:51:30,179 --> 00:51:33,569

I don't know if it's intentional, I

don't know if it's not, but we kind of

:

00:51:33,569 --> 00:51:36,449

seen this with the whole like American

Eagle City Sweeney thing, right?

:

00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:37,979

Does it have a good impact?

:

00:51:37,979 --> 00:51:39,659

Is it not Elf and Matt Rife?

:

00:51:39,689 --> 00:51:43,229

I just wanted to know like

your take on like this concept

:

00:51:43,229 --> 00:51:44,699

of outrage marketing now.

:

00:51:45,599 --> 00:51:45,809

Yeah.

:

00:51:45,809 --> 00:51:50,279

Is it, is it sometimes intentional

or is it just na naivety?

:

00:51:50,609 --> 00:51:52,769

And what are we seeing from that?

:

00:51:52,769 --> 00:51:52,949

Right.

:

00:51:52,949 --> 00:51:53,429

I don't know.

:

00:51:53,489 --> 00:51:56,699

I think it's, the jury's still out on

the American Eagle situation, but I

:

00:51:56,699 --> 00:52:03,239

think the elf situation is more of a

misstep, even more egregious misstep.

:

00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:04,919

So I wanna know what your take is on that.

:

00:52:07,749 --> 00:52:08,049

Speaker 2: Okay.

:

00:52:08,049 --> 00:52:14,379

So my take is that the Elf

Cosmetics ad may have been

:

00:52:14,379 --> 00:52:16,299

produced by my last employer.

:

00:52:16,299 --> 00:52:16,959

I'm not sure.

:

00:52:18,594 --> 00:52:19,614

I wasn't involved in it.

:

00:52:19,614 --> 00:52:22,314

So there's nothing that says

the, like, I don't know anything.

:

00:52:22,314 --> 00:52:28,014

Yeah, I know that the drag queen

is, is partners with someone I

:

00:52:28,014 --> 00:52:30,564

used to work with at that agency.

:

00:52:30,894 --> 00:52:34,854

And if that's the case, I have

absolutely no idea why they

:

00:52:34,854 --> 00:52:37,584

hired Matt Rife either way.

:

00:52:37,584 --> 00:52:39,324

I have no idea why they

hired him for that.

:

00:52:39,414 --> 00:52:40,314

That was strange.

:

00:52:40,734 --> 00:52:41,724

I'm not sure.

:

00:52:41,724 --> 00:52:43,104

Their apology was strange.

:

00:52:43,134 --> 00:52:46,824

Their apology was like an

Instagram story that they saved

:

00:52:46,824 --> 00:52:48,324

and then uploaded as a post.

:

00:52:48,324 --> 00:52:52,584

So it was giving like notes app

with even less effort put into it.

:

00:52:52,794 --> 00:52:55,494

They ended it with a heart emoji

and then they left the ad up.

:

00:52:55,794 --> 00:52:58,944

So it's, it's giving, sorry, not sorry.

:

00:52:59,514 --> 00:52:59,874

Yeah.

:

00:53:00,279 --> 00:53:00,729

I do.

:

00:53:00,729 --> 00:53:03,789

I like, I do think that there's a, there's

a chance that some of these brands could

:

00:53:03,789 --> 00:53:09,279

be playing with rage based rage Bait

Marketing Elf was one of the first to

:

00:53:09,279 --> 00:53:12,729

actually commission a dance on TikTok.

:

00:53:13,119 --> 00:53:16,659

They had the Eyes, lips Face Challenge,

I think is, and the, and the song was

:

00:53:16,659 --> 00:53:20,849

like Eyes, lips, face, like you might

actually know about it commissioned

:

00:53:20,849 --> 00:53:26,339

through Movers and Shakers, which is owned

by two members of the former n XM cult.

:

00:53:27,269 --> 00:53:28,019

Oh, okay.

:

00:53:29,309 --> 00:53:29,939

I don't know.

:

00:53:29,939 --> 00:53:31,139

It could have been rage bait.

:

00:53:31,139 --> 00:53:32,669

It really could have, I'm not sure.

:

00:53:32,779 --> 00:53:35,239

I do think that, like if you

were asking me this question in

:

00:53:35,239 --> 00:53:37,429

:

:

00:53:37,429 --> 00:53:38,659

It was probably an accident.

:

00:53:39,109 --> 00:53:43,399

But like you said, with, with Trump

and, and even JD Vance saying like,

:

00:53:43,399 --> 00:53:46,879

yeah, maybe I made up those facts, but

they made people mad and that worked.

:

00:53:47,974 --> 00:53:48,194

Hmm.

:

00:53:48,199 --> 00:53:51,529

Like that, that is unfortunately a

popular strategy, and it very well

:

00:53:51,529 --> 00:53:53,089

could be playing out in marketing.

:

00:53:53,089 --> 00:53:58,859

I do think that it happens sometimes on a

very small level, typos intentionally miss

:

00:53:58,919 --> 00:54:01,199

or miss like intentionally bad grammar.

:

00:54:01,349 --> 00:54:05,939

I've seen huge rise in paid ads with

a fake hair over the top of the image.

:

00:54:05,939 --> 00:54:08,609

So it looks like you need to clean

your screen and then you click the ad.

:

00:54:09,149 --> 00:54:09,479

Oh, geez.

:

00:54:09,589 --> 00:54:12,949

That, which to me is the same

thing just on a very small level.

:

00:54:12,979 --> 00:54:15,619

Like it's just a, just, there's

just something intentionally

:

00:54:15,619 --> 00:54:17,179

awry that makes you go, what?

:

00:54:17,659 --> 00:54:17,749

Mm-hmm.

:

00:54:17,989 --> 00:54:23,629

It would not shock me, unfortunately, if

we are in an age where like hating women

:

00:54:23,629 --> 00:54:28,789

or domestic violence are topics that we

just throw in just, just to get attention.

:

00:54:29,149 --> 00:54:29,269

Right.

:

00:54:29,369 --> 00:54:30,484

'Cause if that is the case, it worked.

:

00:54:31,739 --> 00:54:32,069

Speaker 4: Yeah.

:

00:54:32,429 --> 00:54:36,899

Well, I mean, I mean we, we are

seeing this though, like obviously

:

00:54:36,899 --> 00:54:40,799

like the, the the office of, of

the governor of California, right?

:

00:54:40,799 --> 00:54:43,079

Like right now it's kind of trending.

:

00:54:43,079 --> 00:54:43,409

Right?

:

00:54:43,414 --> 00:54:43,684

Right.

:

00:54:43,689 --> 00:54:48,119

And, you know, and they've, they've

done a lot of great, you know, write-ups

:

00:54:48,119 --> 00:54:52,349

on, on the, the social media the,

the young lady that's, that's behind

:

00:54:52,349 --> 00:54:54,129

it or the team that's behind it.

:

00:54:54,319 --> 00:54:57,229

Where it's, it's kind of

that, but in a different way.

:

00:54:57,229 --> 00:54:57,499

Right.

:

00:54:57,499 --> 00:54:58,939

It, it kind of is rage bait.

:

00:54:58,939 --> 00:54:59,514

It is, yeah.

:

00:54:59,514 --> 00:55:01,159

For the, for the opposite reason.

:

00:55:01,159 --> 00:55:01,399

Right.

:

00:55:01,404 --> 00:55:04,339

They're, they're, they're posting

stuff to kind of really get that

:

00:55:04,339 --> 00:55:08,479

other side riled up to get Trump

riled up and it's working, right?

:

00:55:08,479 --> 00:55:11,449

I mean, it's getting, it's

getting in front of people.

:

00:55:11,449 --> 00:55:13,819

It's like making people giggle about it.

:

00:55:13,819 --> 00:55:14,149

Right.

:

00:55:14,149 --> 00:55:15,109

So True.

:

00:55:15,139 --> 00:55:19,399

I mean, it's, it's definitely there

and it's, it's, it's a fact effective.

:

00:55:20,599 --> 00:55:24,169

Speaker 2: Well, like what is the, the,

the line I grew up with, which is a very.

:

00:55:24,229 --> 00:55:26,989

I don't know if they still teach

this 'cause it's about like print

:

00:55:26,989 --> 00:55:31,519

marketing, but the, if it bleeds, it

leads idea that like sex cells, blood

:

00:55:31,519 --> 00:55:33,589

cells, murder cells, like they do.

:

00:55:34,129 --> 00:55:38,029

We are still very, we're in kind of a

resurgence of the sex cells era too.

:

00:55:38,059 --> 00:55:39,499

Like Carl's Jr.

:

00:55:39,499 --> 00:55:40,789

I think is sexy again.

:

00:55:41,239 --> 00:55:41,509

Speaker: Hmm.

:

00:55:41,779 --> 00:55:42,049

Yeah.

:

00:55:42,049 --> 00:55:43,579

With like the Alex Earl

:

00:55:43,579 --> 00:55:44,119

Speaker 2: stuff.

:

00:55:44,389 --> 00:55:44,989

Is it Alex Earl?

:

00:55:45,074 --> 00:55:45,364

Yeah.

:

00:55:45,364 --> 00:55:45,374

Yeah.

:

00:55:45,374 --> 00:55:46,669

I think it could be.

:

00:55:46,759 --> 00:55:47,959

I'm, I'm exhausted.

:

00:55:47,989 --> 00:55:50,359

That doesn't sell me a

burger, but that's okay.

:

00:55:51,889 --> 00:55:52,819

That might just be a meat thing.

:

00:55:53,389 --> 00:55:54,019

Speaker: Yeah, no,

:

00:55:54,019 --> 00:55:54,439

Speaker 2: it's true.

:

00:55:54,649 --> 00:55:54,799

And

:

00:55:54,799 --> 00:55:57,259

Speaker: I think that's like, it's weird.

:

00:55:59,179 --> 00:56:00,829

Not weird like I think, right?

:

00:56:00,949 --> 00:56:02,329

Not shocking, but Yeah.

:

00:56:02,329 --> 00:56:03,169

It's not shocking.

:

00:56:03,169 --> 00:56:03,499

Right.

:

00:56:03,499 --> 00:56:08,299

But it is like, it's just funny how

it's just like, it's so much now, right?

:

00:56:08,299 --> 00:56:12,769

Like, and it's such an extreme with

like the whole, like Dr Squash, like

:

00:56:12,799 --> 00:56:14,839

Sydney Sweeney, like bathwater stuff.

:

00:56:14,839 --> 00:56:17,509

Now it's just, it's

going down weird avenue.

:

00:56:18,199 --> 00:56:20,089

It's getting that works for Dr.

:

00:56:20,089 --> 00:56:23,239

Squat because that makes

sense for them, right?

:

00:56:23,239 --> 00:56:23,249

Yeah.

:

00:56:23,249 --> 00:56:25,549

It would be weird if Elf did that, right?

:

00:56:25,555 --> 00:56:26,959

But true.

:

00:56:28,214 --> 00:56:32,654

But it, it is like you mentioned it, it

is like kind of like a resurgence of that

:

00:56:32,654 --> 00:56:36,254

and I don't know it, I think it's just,

once again, it just goes back to the,

:

00:56:36,254 --> 00:56:39,734

the conversation understanding like when

you are engaging in memes and when you

:

00:56:39,734 --> 00:56:41,654

are engaging in outrage marketing, right?

:

00:56:41,654 --> 00:56:43,274

There's ways to do it, right?

:

00:56:43,274 --> 00:56:45,854

Like if Kit Kat came out and said, Hey,

you guys have been eating it wrong.

:

00:56:45,854 --> 00:56:46,694

You're not supposed to break 'em.

:

00:56:46,694 --> 00:56:47,784

You're supposed to just take a.

:

00:56:48,344 --> 00:56:49,514

Spite of the whole thing.

:

00:56:49,544 --> 00:56:49,934

Right.

:

00:56:50,054 --> 00:56:53,204

Maybe that's a d that's

not that outrageous,

:

00:56:53,204 --> 00:56:57,114

Speaker 2: but like, but it, it does

elicit the same like internal like,

:

00:56:57,229 --> 00:56:57,449

Speaker 3: ugh,

:

00:56:57,949 --> 00:56:58,569

Speaker 2: that's wrong.

:

00:56:58,879 --> 00:57:02,544

Like for some it might outrage

them to the point that they Yeah.

:

00:57:02,604 --> 00:57:06,504

Like when I was on Sour Patch Kids

for April Fools, we told everyone

:

00:57:06,504 --> 00:57:07,674

that the band was breaking up.

:

00:57:07,764 --> 00:57:09,384

We're like, the kids

are no longer together.

:

00:57:09,504 --> 00:57:14,994

Unfortunately, a very, very large portion

of the United States assumed that that

:

00:57:14,994 --> 00:57:18,684

meant that we were going outta business

and we accidentally drove a record high

:

00:57:18,684 --> 00:57:21,024

number of customer service inquiries.

:

00:57:21,654 --> 00:57:23,334

So accidentally we did the same thing.

:

00:57:23,909 --> 00:57:24,649

Oh geez.

:

00:57:25,349 --> 00:57:27,264

But we weren't doing it for a bad reason.

:

00:57:27,414 --> 00:57:27,474

Yeah.

:

00:57:27,474 --> 00:57:29,009

And we told everyone it was just a joke.

:

00:57:29,784 --> 00:57:30,504

Speaker 4: Yeah, but

:

00:57:30,504 --> 00:57:31,409

Speaker 2: see, I think

that's a, it's okay.

:

00:57:31,409 --> 00:57:31,449

Right?

:

00:57:31,454 --> 00:57:31,824

That's a good

:

00:57:31,824 --> 00:57:32,574

Speaker 4: example.

:

00:57:32,634 --> 00:57:34,374

You know, even, even that, right?

:

00:57:34,374 --> 00:57:38,154

When they're doing, you know, just the,

the traditional marketing with the,

:

00:57:38,214 --> 00:57:40,104

their sour, but then they're sweet.

:

00:57:40,199 --> 00:57:40,489

Yeah.

:

00:57:40,494 --> 00:57:43,584

I think that was, that's

like a perfect also, right?

:

00:57:43,584 --> 00:57:45,744

Because like they kind of did

some rage bait commercials.

:

00:57:45,749 --> 00:57:45,809

Yeah.

:

00:57:45,809 --> 00:57:46,584

That is, yeah.

:

00:57:46,584 --> 00:57:50,214

They're doing something kind of bad to

somebody, somebody like cutting the hair

:

00:57:50,214 --> 00:57:51,654

and they're like, oh, but now we're sweet.

:

00:57:51,954 --> 00:57:53,814

I mean, I think that that works, right?

:

00:57:53,814 --> 00:57:56,454

And it worked for the

brand, and, and that's true.

:

00:57:56,454 --> 00:57:56,604

That

:

00:57:56,604 --> 00:57:58,884

Speaker 2: did elicit like rage.

:

00:57:59,274 --> 00:57:59,484

Yeah.

:

00:57:59,664 --> 00:58:02,304

If a little candy gummy guy

came up and cut my hair, I'd

:

00:58:02,304 --> 00:58:03,324

probably be pretty pissed too.

:

00:58:05,814 --> 00:58:06,264

Yeah.

:

00:58:07,584 --> 00:58:08,124

Speaker 4: Cool.

:

00:58:08,544 --> 00:58:13,584

Well, yeah, I mean, look, so for anybody

that's, that's, that's watching right now,

:

00:58:13,614 --> 00:58:19,974

kind of, you know, either a creator or,

you know, small business, what advice.

:

00:58:20,334 --> 00:58:25,104

Would you give them just kind of in

general right now, if you know, as far

:

00:58:25,104 --> 00:58:30,234

as their, their marketing strategy or,

you know, just anything that you'd like

:

00:58:30,234 --> 00:58:32,484

to, to kind of put out there for them?

:

00:58:32,784 --> 00:58:33,354

Speaker 2: Yeah.

:

00:58:33,354 --> 00:58:37,134

For one, I definitely say

subscribe to silence brand ck.com.

:

00:58:38,904 --> 00:58:40,794

No, but it is free and we will help you.

:

00:58:41,184 --> 00:58:44,334

Yeah, but I, I think I'm just

gonna pull from two things I said

:

00:58:44,334 --> 00:58:47,214

earlier and check a trend or a meme.

:

00:58:47,304 --> 00:58:49,254

Do, do a little bit of

research before you jump in.

:

00:58:49,404 --> 00:58:52,554

Like not, I'm not even saying 20

minutes, just click around, make

:

00:58:52,554 --> 00:58:56,724

sure that nobody is in the top, like

top post is doing anything nefarious

:

00:58:56,724 --> 00:58:59,814

or something that you wouldn't do,

because that could be indicative of the

:

00:58:59,814 --> 00:59:01,554

trend and not just those businesses.

:

00:59:01,914 --> 00:59:05,214

And then the other recommendation would

be just try things, because I think

:

00:59:05,214 --> 00:59:09,894

that a lot of this field is dominated

by people who focus a little too much on

:

00:59:09,894 --> 00:59:12,384

strategy when strategy can be refined.

:

00:59:12,744 --> 00:59:15,594

So you have to start from somewhere

and you can, you can adapt how

:

00:59:15,594 --> 00:59:18,264

that playbook looks, but you

have to start from somewhere.

:

00:59:18,504 --> 00:59:21,834

Otherwise, you're just writing rules for

yourself in a game you're not playing.

:

00:59:22,919 --> 00:59:23,209

Yeah,

:

00:59:23,909 --> 00:59:26,064

Speaker 4: that's, yeah,

that's great advice.

:

00:59:26,664 --> 00:59:27,204

But I hope so.

:

00:59:27,654 --> 00:59:28,284

Yeah.

:

00:59:28,584 --> 00:59:29,634

No, absolutely.

:

00:59:29,994 --> 00:59:32,604

Well, thank you so much, you

know, for, for jumping on.

:

00:59:32,604 --> 00:59:33,654

Thank you for your time.

:

00:59:33,654 --> 00:59:33,834

Of course.

:

00:59:34,014 --> 00:59:37,254

Yeah, for anybody that's watching,

we're gonna have, we'll, you know,

:

00:59:37,434 --> 00:59:41,604

we'll have the link in our, you know,

in our socials to, to, you know, get

:

00:59:41,604 --> 00:59:46,214

you guys subscribed to to Silence brand

and, and get their, their updates.

:

00:59:46,244 --> 00:59:49,034

'cause Yeah, they're, they're

definitely one of my favorite

:

00:59:49,064 --> 00:59:50,324

things to get in the emails.

:

00:59:51,789 --> 00:59:52,079

Stop.

:

00:59:53,654 --> 00:59:53,984

Speaker: Yeah.

:

00:59:53,984 --> 00:59:56,774

And I, I think it's just, once again,

whether you're just a curious, I think

:

00:59:56,774 --> 00:59:59,924

it's advantageous if you're, you're

a creator or a business owner who is

:

00:59:59,924 --> 01:00:01,874

engaging in like, things online, right?

:

01:00:02,054 --> 01:00:03,974

It's advantageous to know what is.

:

01:00:04,544 --> 01:00:07,754

Hot what's trending and get an

understanding because, you know, you don't

:

01:00:07,754 --> 01:00:12,284

have to be that expert, but silence brand

is kind of there to help connect the dots.

:

01:00:12,534 --> 01:00:16,944

So you can engage or figure out

right, what trends you're not going,

:

01:00:16,944 --> 01:00:19,854

you're gonna sit out on and what

trends you want to participate in.

:

01:00:20,094 --> 01:00:22,134

But also just getting an idea

of whether it's, you know,

:

01:00:22,134 --> 01:00:23,274

participating in those or not.

:

01:00:23,304 --> 01:00:25,644

Just getting, understanding,

understanding of like the

:

01:00:25,644 --> 01:00:27,294

cultural conversation going on.

:

01:00:27,294 --> 01:00:29,544

Like what is Gen Z talking about?

:

01:00:29,544 --> 01:00:29,904

Right?

:

01:00:30,114 --> 01:00:34,944

Why are we seeing, you know,

recession based recipes popping up

:

01:00:35,304 --> 01:00:36,684

and why is the pickle everywhere?

:

01:00:37,014 --> 01:00:38,034

Yeah, exactly.

:

01:00:38,424 --> 01:00:41,494

So, and just getting an idea,

like getting a background check on

:

01:00:41,494 --> 01:00:44,944

that and like, and, and you know,

always be willing to learn, right?

:

01:00:44,944 --> 01:00:47,014

So I think, you know, whether

you endorse it or not, we are

:

01:00:47,014 --> 01:00:48,394

going to fully endorse it anyway.

:

01:00:48,614 --> 01:00:52,734

Disclaimer, even though the fact that you

guys are a client of ours just, you know,

:

01:00:52,734 --> 01:00:57,114

endorsing it because of that advantageous,

once again, we're all participating.

:

01:00:57,114 --> 01:00:59,004

We all don't know what

we're doing, but we can.

:

01:00:59,319 --> 01:01:01,179

Do our homework at the end of the day too.

:

01:01:01,539 --> 01:01:03,909

So I think Silence brand helps

people do their homework on that.

:

01:01:03,914 --> 01:01:04,134

Yeah.

:

01:01:04,629 --> 01:01:04,809

Speaker 2: Yeah.

:

01:01:04,814 --> 01:01:05,334

We hope that's fun.

:

01:01:05,349 --> 01:01:07,749

We help do the homework so that you

look smart in front of your boss.

:

01:01:07,809 --> 01:01:08,349

That's our goal.

:

01:01:08,349 --> 01:01:08,769

There you go.

:

01:01:10,209 --> 01:01:10,899

Speaker: But cool.

:

01:01:10,929 --> 01:01:13,329

Ryan, any any last parting words for our

:

01:01:13,329 --> 01:01:14,199

Speaker 2: audience?

:

01:01:15,069 --> 01:01:15,639

Hmm.

:

01:01:16,299 --> 01:01:19,299

Just like, don't do we

at White House is doing.

:

01:01:19,299 --> 01:01:21,489

And you're already 90% of the way there.

:

01:01:23,374 --> 01:01:23,824

Love that.

:

01:01:23,824 --> 01:01:24,099

Love that.

:

01:01:24,369 --> 01:01:25,929

Speaker: Well, thank you again, Ryan.

:

01:01:26,169 --> 01:01:26,919

Appreciate it.

:

01:01:26,979 --> 01:01:27,639

Yeah, thanks for having me.

:

01:01:27,689 --> 01:01:29,084

And yeah, we'll see you around.

:

01:01:29,544 --> 01:01:30,204

Sounds good.

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About the Podcast

Rise & Flow
Inspiration from Top Creators and Business Owners
Hey there! Ray & Gabe here, your friendly neighborhood attorneys of in|flow law group! Join us as we interview multi-passionate entrepreneurs and creators who are willing to share their stories and how they were able to turn their passions into purpose! If you're an aspiring business owner or creator, you're not going to want to miss out on these episodes full of inspirational, educational, and empowering gems!

in|flow law group, is a law firm dedicated solely to creators and the modern day multi-passionate entrepreneur. We offer services to help empower our clients in protecting their business, building their brand, and prioritizing their intellectual property. We also offer a subscription based legal services, so every business can have access to an attorney - no matter the size. To learn more about our law firm, check us out at https://www.iminflow.com/

About your hosts

Rayman Khan

Profile picture for Rayman Khan
Ray is an easy going plant father and adventurous spirit. He heads up the brand strategy and contract practice areas for in|flow. His goal is to be the Anthony Bourdain of lawyers... whatever that means.
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Ray can help you secure a trademark, get your contracts aligned, and find the best spot in town to get dinner tonight. He's worked with creative and social entrepreneurs in the past, as well as serve as a climate policy advisor for the City of San Diego.

Ask him about his lunch with Desmond Tutu.

Leopoldo Estrada

Profile picture for Leopoldo Estrada
Gabe is a father, husband, business owner, and social media influencer! Oh yeah he’s an attorney too! His passion for art and music led him to open a successful tattoo shop that has been thriving for almost a decade. He’s also one of the biggest Star Wars fans you’ll meet, which landed him as an approved Disney/Lucasfilm social media influencer! His social media followings have over half a million followers and over 10 million views!

Besides helping you with all the legal stuff we do, Gabe’s experience in running a sustainable business and social media growth can be a lightsaber…oops, we mean a life saver for your project!

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