Episode 4

full
Published on:

11th Nov 2022

Debunking Solopreneur Finances with Katelyn Magnuson

We get asked countless times by our clients - "Do you know any good accountants?!" And for a while, that was a hard question to answer. We knew talented tax professionals, but none that we ever felt were the right fit for our clients. Our clients came to in|flow because we were different and understood where our clients were at - we wanted to ensure any referred accountants were on the same level.

Enter Katelyn Magnuson - who passed the vibe check with flying colors 🔥

Katelyn Magnuson, founder and CEO of The Freelance CFO, LLC, believes we’re all capable of reaching long-term financial goals without having to skip your daily latte. In November of 2017, she took her decade of experience as a tax analyst and controller and launched what is now known as The Freelance CFO, with the goal of helping millennials (and beyond) master their money knowledge and grow their financial freedom. Through her speaking, social media presence, and sought-after one-on-one coaching, she empowers individuals and small businesses alike to utilize personal money management to “create the life of their dreams with businesses that not only support their goals and generate profit, but are also fun.”When she’s not keeping in touch with her team and clients, or being featured on OppsLoan, Thrive Global, Betches, and countless other podcasts, she enjoys planning spontaneous trips to Iceland and hanging out with her chickens.

Sit back, and enjoy story time with Katelyn as they recount their journey to building her personal brand and managing the team at The Freelance CFO!

The Freelance CFO Website

The Freelance CFO Facebook Page

Instagram: @thefreelancecfo

Tiktok: @katelynmagnuson

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Transcript
Gabe:

Hey everybody.

Gabe:

Welcome back to another episode of Rise Flow.

Gabe:

My name is Gabe Estrada.

Ray:

And I'm Ray Khan.

Ray:

And we're the founders of Inflow Law Group, a law firm dedicated to

Ray:

creative entrepreneurs and artists.

Ray:

And we're really excited to bring you this episode today.

Gabe:

Yeah.

Gabe:

We have such a great

Gabe:

episode, and in fact, it's our first guest that we're having on the podcast,

Gabe:

so we wanted to make sure it was a special

Gabe:

one.

Ray:

Yes.

Ray:

Today's guest is Katelyn Magnuson, the founder of the Freelance

Ray:

CFO which is basically a tax and accounting firm dedicated to

Ray:

millennials and beyond to help.

Ray:

Manage their money and gain and expand their financial freedom.

Gabe:

Yeah.

Gabe:

And Caitlin is just such an amazing person and we vibe with her from day one not only

Gabe:

just because of how, her personality, but also the way she's running her business.

Gabe:

And it's very similar to the way, we run Inflow and the similar values and.

Gabe:

The mission that we're trying to accomplish in our perspective fields.

Gabe:

She pretty much mirrors it and she's such a cool person.

Gabe:

Yeah.

Gabe:

We were really lucky that she reached out to us from, like early on when

Gabe:

we started our business and, we were always looking for an accountant

Gabe:

that kind of matched the vibe Yeah.

Ray:

Of inflow that we could refer our clients to.

Ray:

Cuz countless times our clients would ask us, Hey, can you help us with

Ray:

tax information or any tax advice?

Ray:

And we're not experts in that field.

Ray:

So it was always nice to, recommend our clients as someone we knew and trust.

Ray:

And we knew tax professionals, but no, no one that we ever felt that would really

Ray:

match the vibe and brand of Inflow.

Ray:

So we were super lucky to have Caitlin, who's very knowledgeable about what

Ray:

she does and she has so much value that she provides her clients.

Ray:

And I think she really packed a lot into this episode.

Ray:

So, yeah.

Ray:

So

Gabe:

without further do, lets bring her on.

Ray:

So Caitlin Mag, I'm so excited.

Ray:

Our first guest on the Rise Flow podcast.

Ray:

Just really excited to have you on and thank you so much for taking the time

Ray:

to join us on this conversation today.

Ray:

And just, it's big for us because, we were always looking for an

Ray:

accountant firm that was similar to Inflow with the vibe, pass the vibe.

Ray:

And kind of created services in a different way than we saw normal

Ray:

accounting services doing it.

Ray:

Yeah, this was kind of like a mirror of inflow.

Ray:

So, super excited to have you on today.

Ray:

Absolutely.

Gabe:

Yes.

Gabe:

Thank you.

Gabe:

And yeah, so I, I think right off the bat we wanna know about Caitlin.

Gabe:

What, what drives you, kind of, how you've got to this place and, just tell

Gabe:

us your story.

Katelyn:

Yeah, of course.

Katelyn:

So it is a very long and twisted story.

Katelyn:

But at the end of the day, I ended up doing bookkeeping and being trained by

Katelyn:

someone in college, working, three jobs, doing the whole typical hustle thing,

Katelyn:

figured out that I was really good at.

Katelyn:

Doing what I was doing the bookkeeping, doing the controlling, doing the

Katelyn:

ordering, and had always been advanced in math and got busted,

Katelyn:

the high school and middle school.

Katelyn:

And my parents weren't sure if I was gonna like flunk out or if I was

Katelyn:

going to excel and be valedictorian.

Katelyn:

I ended up somewhere in the middle.

Katelyn:

And with that I figured out that I really liked making a

Katelyn:

difference with small businesses.

Katelyn:

So I worked with a small business all through college and that's

Katelyn:

really where I got my feet wet.

Katelyn:

And then I graduated and went into.

Katelyn:

sales tax and some corporate things, was looking for income that would actually

Katelyn:

pay the bills because I had kind of capped out where I was at that small business.

Katelyn:

Ended up jumping through some really interesting businesses and then

Katelyn:

ended up at Thompson Reuters in a different version of sales and use

Katelyn:

and taxability rates and research.

Katelyn:

And that made me realize I hated being another cog in the machine.

Katelyn:

Thompson orders is massive and.

Katelyn:

One, it was really boring.

Katelyn:

We'd have some weeks where I'd work less than 20 hours a week, but I

Katelyn:

had to have, button seat for minimum of six hours for their core hours.

Katelyn:

It was also when I started getting used to doing remote work and realizing that

Katelyn:

there was this whole area outside of like being in the office and what I thought

Katelyn:

corporate looked like, and then realizing that I also hate business casual.

Katelyn:

And having to, dress a certain way and have people, monitor

Katelyn:

everything that you're doing was just not how I worked well.

Katelyn:

And so ended up leaving there actually to go back to a small

Katelyn:

business that was related to that first business I'd worked with.

Katelyn:

I had the woman that had trained me say, Hey, I have someone I

Katelyn:

think you should meet with them.

Katelyn:

And dove, I mean, face first back into that business making a difference.

Katelyn:

There were four of us there and it also, I have.

Katelyn:

And so being able to work with businesses that are fast paced where I get to do

Katelyn:

so many different things instead of being stuck in an accounts payable role

Katelyn:

where that is all that I'm doing, that doesn't work well for my personality.

Katelyn:

And so Dove back in, made a huge difference.

Katelyn:

The owner actually sold the company, so I went through the selling process

Katelyn:

and went back with the new owners.

Katelyn:

Came back and then did not have a job.

Katelyn:

I was gainfully unemployed at 25, being the primary earner with a mortgage

Katelyn:

payment and a lot of responsibilities.

Katelyn:

And the state of Oregon where I was living at the time, basically said,

Katelyn:

Hey based on what you make and the industry that you're in and your age,

Katelyn:

we don't think you're gonna find a job.

Katelyn:

You should.

Katelyn:

Your own business and you get six months of unemployment without

Katelyn:

having to do any of the check-ins that you would normally have to do.

Katelyn:

Do you wanna do this?

Katelyn:

And I was like, Well, that's a huge vote of confidence.

Katelyn:

Okay, guess we're gonna go do this now.

Katelyn:

So hadn't

Katelyn:

had any luck,

Ray:

Sorry to interrupt, but were you ever, thinking about starting your

Ray:

own firm, like before that moment or were like, was it like on the mind?

Ray:

I've been doing

Katelyn:

freelance consulting, things like nothing that was paying the

Katelyn:

bills but would let me sort of dabble.

Katelyn:

So it was something that I'd always wanted to do.

Katelyn:

But to be really frank my husband, or he was long term boyfriend at the

Katelyn:

time, was terrified of having me as the primary earner working for myself

Katelyn:

because he had seen a lot of instability in his home life with self-employment,

Katelyn:

whereas I'd seen the exact opposite.

Katelyn:

My dad was an electrician, also had a business.

Katelyn:

I mean, being an electrician you're on for years and then you're off maybe

Katelyn:

during recessions for a year or two.

Katelyn:

And so we had very different upbringings and that made him very nervous.

Katelyn:

So I ran a lot of them simultaneously, like my business

Katelyn:

and that, so started the business.

Katelyn:

Ended up one of my clients, became a full-time position.

Katelyn:

Again, continued the business during that time and then left

Katelyn:

that environment strategically.

Katelyn:

Took a day job doing workers' comp, payroll risk and safety management because

Katelyn:

I wanted to build that skill set out.

Katelyn:

I didn't have as much experience on that side, and I knew we were

Katelyn:

gonna be looking to buy a house.

Katelyn:

And as you all know, when you're self employ, Buying a home is not the easiest.

Katelyn:

And so I took that.

Katelyn:

I worked it for actually three years to the day and bought my house six

Katelyn:

months before I left that position.

Katelyn:

And so that worked.

Katelyn:

That was actually right during the pandemic, like March 17th.

Katelyn:

And that worked out really well.

Katelyn:

But I had, in that meantime, built up a business that then didn't have any

Katelyn:

pressure on it from me because I didn't need that business to make my bills,

Katelyn:

which was really interesting compared to what it had been earlier when that

Katelyn:

was like the only income coming in.

Katelyn:

And so it let me reconfigure and kind of burn things to the ground a

Katelyn:

little bit and rebuild and fix what I didn't like or how it was working.

Katelyn:

And that set me up to really be in a good position for.

Katelyn:

During, and we're gonna call it post pandemic now, I think,

Katelyn:

but you know, during and post.

Katelyn:

Because I was able to put things in that worked and test and move and make

Katelyn:

changes and not worry to, not worry about not being able to pay my bills.

Gabe:

Yeah.

Gabe:

So I mean, you're, you kind of have a very similar, obviously story from us, right?

Gabe:

It was one of those things where, you know we didn't want to conform to, kind of the,

Gabe:

this old way of doing things and you also.

Gabe:

There's so many small businesses and entrepreneurs that kind

Gabe:

of did the same thing, right?

Gabe:

Where they realized that, there's this whole other.

Gabe:

Potential out there to own your own business and do

Gabe:

it the way you wanna do it.

Gabe:

Which kind of leads us to what you do and how you're kind of revolutionizing

Gabe:

kind of that space that you're in.

Gabe:

Love to hear a little bit more about how your business is so different kind of.

Gabe:

Than the traditional accounting firms.

Katelyn:

Yeah, so throughout all those corporate jobs and the non corporate

Katelyn:

jobs, I figured out that I had a real aptitude for explaining things in.

Katelyn:

A way that made sense that was validating, that didn't bring all the shame into,

Katelyn:

cause I worked with a lot of lawyers and a lot of accountants and there is

Katelyn:

a lot of jargon that gets thrown around and patronizing attitudes and kind

Katelyn:

of we're better than you and, Oh, you don't have, you don't know what we do.

Katelyn:

How, like peasant.

Katelyn:

Yeah.

Katelyn:

And that always rubbed me the wrong way.

Katelyn:

And it doesn't make anyone around you feel good.

Katelyn:

And so in working with small businesses who a selfishly I get

Katelyn:

to have a big impact with, right?

Katelyn:

Which I love.

Katelyn:

I get to make a difference, which I think is really validating, but

Katelyn:

it is so exciting for me to be able to break something down and

Katelyn:

explain quarterly estimates or how your pass through entity works.

Katelyn:

Like why you should, separate something or how, like I have clients all the time that

Katelyn:

are like, Hey, I haven't paid myself all.

Katelyn:

Cause I don't wanna get taxed on that money.

Katelyn:

And I'm like, Whoa, you're gonna pay tax on profits.

Katelyn:

Like whether it's, generally speaking, whether it's in there or not.

Katelyn:

Like let's have that discussion.

Katelyn:

And so there's just so many misconceptions.

Katelyn:

But what I found is that so many small business owners, which I

Katelyn:

think you guys have found, they don't need a full-time bookkeeper.

Katelyn:

They don't need a full-time staff person, but they need something.

Katelyn:

And so that's where we really had this niche to fit into.

Katelyn:

We do taxes, we do business registration, we do sales tax, we do, accounting

Katelyn:

setup, and we do monthly bookkeeping.

Katelyn:

And so you can come to us.

Katelyn:

and say, I don't know what the hell I'm doing, and it scares me.

Katelyn:

And we're not going to say, Hey, we're gonna do all of it for you.

Katelyn:

We're gonna say, Hey, let's do all of that for and with you and let's explain

Katelyn:

what we're doing so that you understand.

Katelyn:

Because I think that's the other problem we run into is people do

Katelyn:

finally, get someone hired, they bring on a professional and well do.

Katelyn:

Do that, and there's none of the but why.

Katelyn:

And for some people it's okay, but it's your money, It's your business, it's your

Katelyn:

taxes, it's your life, it's your future.

Katelyn:

So you don't need to know everything, but you should know the reasoning why

Katelyn:

we recommended an SCOR election, why we recommended this amount for your payroll.

Katelyn:

And so that's where we really capitalize on being able to break things down

Katelyn:

and explain them and being accessible financially for you to work with

Katelyn:

someone and have all of these needs.

Katelyn:

Yeah.

Ray:

Yeah.

Ray:

And you know what I think that struck me about, the freelancing CFO and

Ray:

what you're doing and just like us, is that it's all based, like

Ray:

on the empowerment aspect, right?

Ray:

Where it's, these are like core things and like information, like whether

Ray:

it's legal or whether it's, tax advice.

Ray:

That is so essential to most business owners, but some business owners

Ray:

are kind of ashamed sometimes by like, but their lack of knowledge.

Ray:

But hey, we're all in the same boat.

Ray:

Like, when me and Gabe start, like, we don't know anything about taxes.

Ray:

Just like a lot of people don't know anything about the legal

Ray:

stuff that we do, but, I think it's just, Helping empower people with

Ray:

like just the basic information.

Ray:

Right.

Ray:

And you do such a great job with that for your clients through all the

Ray:

services you offer, which we'll ask more about, but you're also really

Ray:

great at social media too, right?

Ray:

And I think that's what's amazing because there's not many accounting

Ray:

firms that show up on social media.

Ray:

And, just provide like good free educational content, which, you know,

Ray:

obviously strategically for you, it's great because now people who

Ray:

don't think they need your services because, just like blind spots in

Ray:

their own business now learn about it and then eventually reach out to you.

Ray:

But when did you like kind of start realizing like the power of social

Ray:

media, like, Was it from the get go when you started your business, like,

Ray:

oh, most of my marketing's gonna be through, through social media.

Ray:

Did you kind of take the route of a lot of business owners where it's, you start

Ray:

your business and you are experimenting with marketing, you're doing Google

Ray:

ads, you're doing X, Y, and Z, and then just found out social media probably

Ray:

had like the best return on revenue.

Ray:

Curious about that because you're killing it on like TikTok and

Ray:

Instagram and things like that, so Oh

Katelyn:

yeah.

Katelyn:

So.

Katelyn:

It was a little bit weird.

Katelyn:

So back in what, 2016 ish?

Katelyn:

I think when everything got rolling late 2016 Instagram was the hot place to be.

Katelyn:

So I think I was on Instagram and Facebook.

Katelyn:

Have a Facebook group.

Katelyn:

Did all the things that everyone told you to be doing.

Katelyn:

But I was also working on actively cold pitching potential clients.

Katelyn:

. So I got really comfortable doing that.

Katelyn:

Finding a company that like I thought had a need reaching

Katelyn:

out and that went really well.

Katelyn:

Problem.

Katelyn:

It was a lot of larger companies, the person that had coached me on that,

Katelyn:

I didn't want to be a fractional CFO for these really large companies.

Katelyn:

I wanted to work with smaller ones.

Katelyn:

And that took me a while to realize and then figure out where

Katelyn:

are these smaller businesses?

Katelyn:

And so it started with interacting in Facebook groups that had, VAs

Katelyn:

or OBMs or graphic designers that were in need of what we were doing.

Katelyn:

And.

Katelyn:

God, it had to be 2017, I think.

Katelyn:

I ended up working with a wedding photographer, and wedding photographers

Katelyn:

are so incredibly referral based, that one became five, became 15, and we now

Katelyn:

work with probably 60% wedding industry vendors, Floris, wedding planners,

Katelyn:

photographers, videographers I'm sure there's niches I'm missing in there.

Katelyn:

Because they're so referral based.

Katelyn:

And so for me, social media specifically, Instagram was then a really good medium

Katelyn:

to be on because that's where all of those clients are because they're such a visual

Katelyn:

based business and that's where their clients are cuz they're looking at B to C.

Katelyn:

And so for me, being on Instagram was more about providing the like trust no factor

Katelyn:

than it was pulling potential clients in.

Katelyn:

So what would happen is someone would say, Hey, you should go work with the

Katelyn:

freelance CFO and send them our profile.

Katelyn:

They'd go look at.

Katelyn:

Then go, Oh, they know their stuff.

Katelyn:

They've been putting out all this information.

Katelyn:

They seem really relatable.

Katelyn:

I'm gonna reach out.

Katelyn:

And so it would help to validate when someone did refer them and

Katelyn:

then the pandemic happened and.

Katelyn:

TikTok, I resisted TikTok for so long cuz I'm a millennial, right?

Katelyn:

I'm 32 and it just seemed like this child's app, like, it was just ridiculous.

Katelyn:

And then I think like the rest of us got probably six or eight months

Katelyn:

in, I was like, you know what?

Katelyn:

Yeah.

Katelyn:

Screw it Brian.

Katelyn:

I'm gonna download it, I'm gonna do it.

Katelyn:

I don't think I posted a video for the longest time but it was just so much fun

Katelyn:

to be on there and have this lighthearted.

Katelyn:

Doom, you could kind of drop your doom scrolling cuz it, it was lighthearted

Katelyn:

my feet at least was, which is, I guess, the algorithm was doing its

Katelyn:

thing and I've always been really comfortable public speaking and,

Katelyn:

reaching out and talking to clients.

Katelyn:

Cause I do it all day, so I was like, well guess it's time.

Katelyn:

To be doing it on TikTok.

Katelyn:

And TikTok was so much easier for me than Instagram for that video content.

Katelyn:

And I also didn't have to be concerned.

Katelyn:

I think we all get a little bit weird about that at first.

Katelyn:

None of my existing clients were seeing this, right?

Katelyn:

I hadn't tied everything in.

Katelyn:

I could kind of just play and explore, and that was really fun for me.

Katelyn:

And then I had some videos go viral.

Katelyn:

and that about broke me the number of inquiries and are you hiring and

Katelyn:

can I work with you last August?

Katelyn:

And then the video would go mini viral every two weeks for I

Katelyn:

think like six weeks after that.

Katelyn:

So just when we gotten caught up and felt like we could breathe, it was

Katelyn:

like, Oh God, there's another influx.

Katelyn:

And so I would say as like a caveat to anyone that is, hoping to go

Katelyn:

viral, have automated systems in.

Katelyn:

Rather than trying to put them in place after you've had a video go

Katelyn:

viral, have your little link tree, have contact info, have it all in there.

Katelyn:

But that made TikTok both more fun and a little bit less fun, right?

Katelyn:

Cause it's kind of addicting to have that, virality, but then

Katelyn:

you're chasing it a little bit.

Katelyn:

Oh, well this video only got, 2000 views.

Katelyn:

Like, but this one had all the information in it.

Katelyn:

Like, why are people not seeing it?

Katelyn:

Right?

Katelyn:

So it can be frustrating, but I really, I treat TikTok as a fun.

Katelyn:

For me.

Katelyn:

I don't stick to a really consistent schedule.

Katelyn:

And I post when I'm feeling like I've repeated myself seven times for the day.

Katelyn:

You know what?

Katelyn:

I think the world needs to hear this.

Katelyn:

Like, let's go.

Katelyn:

Just do a quick one minute riff.

Gabe:

Yeah.

Gabe:

. No.

Gabe:

And it's so funny that you mentioned that with TikTok because that is true.

Gabe:

I think there's this fine line, right?

Gabe:

And especially with business owners, once they get on social, Especially

Gabe:

TikTok with kind of yeah, chasing that, right, that viral high.

Gabe:

Right.

Gabe:

Because yeah, once you get this first viral video, it's just so

Gabe:

like, exciting and you're getting so much, positive feedback that,

Gabe:

Ray and I, we talk about it.

Gabe:

We end up kind of just like, almost like talking to the algorithm, like, Oh,

Gabe:

how you gonna shadow band this video?

Gabe:

Oh, why aren't you pushing this video?

Gabe:

This one's great.

Gabe:

So it's really funny how you mentioned that, but it's also very important.

Gabe:

I think what you also brought up is that, You're also not taking it as serious as

Gabe:

like some, right, Some business, like every day, three times a day, seven.

Gabe:

It's more organic.

Gabe:

It's more of when you feel like there's information that needs to be put out there

Gabe:

and just kind of letting it flow, right.

Gabe:

Letting it.

Gabe:

Let's see what happens with the video.

Gabe:

And I think that's probably the best way to approach that platform because

Gabe:

I mean, it's impossible to tell which one's gonna do well and which one's not.

Gabe:

So

Katelyn:

it's nothing worse than it feeling like a chore either, which

Katelyn:

feels like when I put a schedule to it, it's like, no, I don't want

Katelyn:

it to go, like I don't wanna do it.

Katelyn:

Right.

Ray:

And it's kind of.

Ray:

I always think about, so I mean we're big advocates of social media, but

Ray:

like, traditional business, right?

Ray:

It's like it's a dog eat dog world.

Ray:

Super competitive out spending like on ad revenue or like ad spend with your

Ray:

competitors to get your name out there.

Ray:

When social media came out, it kind of changed the game where it gave people

Ray:

like us who weren't your like traditional archetype of like, Capitalist business

Ray:

owner where it's like, Hey, we're just in this to like provide a value and social

Ray:

media gives us that chance to just be like, Hey, this is why we do what we do.

Ray:

, right?

Ray:

This is who we are.

Ray:

We can like just pop on.

Ray:

We can share a helpful tip, we can share our favorite fast

Ray:

food joint, whatever it may be.

Ray:

Yeah.

Ray:

Cause like it comes back to that strategy you mentioned, which.

Ray:

Not really a strategy, it's just more, sometimes it's just

Ray:

like a natural thing where it's like that like and trust factor.

Ray:

Yeah.

Ray:

That social media allows you to kind of like connect with your audience

Ray:

that eventually, gets into your pipeline of, or your funnel, I guess,

Ray:

of eventually becoming a client.

Ray:

So that's what's amazing that social media, just being able, it gives us

Ray:

like a platform for people like us who just like want to do good work.

Ray:

Right?

Ray:

Yeah.

Ray:

Well, like us, like just

Gabe:

in general, because we're in a field obviously similar to you where it's.

Gabe:

Ancient.

Gabe:

Right.

Gabe:

It's really an old practice, right?

Gabe:

Law, accounting.

Gabe:

And traditionally, you, anybody, you ask, Hey, what does an accountant look like?

Gabe:

They're gonna think of like some old person behind a desk

Gabe:

filled with stacks of paper.

Gabe:

Like, and then when you think about like, what does an attorney look like?

Gabe:

It's like you're gonna think of like some, suited up kind of,

Katelyn:

briefcase caring.

Katelyn:

Yeah.

Katelyn:

Like

Gabe:

old guy, and I think social media opened up kind of the world to

Gabe:

see that attorneys can look like us, accountants could be cool like you,

Gabe:

like it doesn't need to be this old, traditional kind of way of doing things.

Gabe:

And I think the younger generation, the millennial generation, I

Gabe:

mean, I think they appreciate that and it's, the approachability is

Ray:

way better.

Ray:

. Katelyn: Well, they're needing

Ray:

business, and I know that's a barrier.

Ray:

I've hit a lot where we'll have clients come on that are like, Yeah,

Ray:

I've been working with my parents accountant, Like they don't get what I.

Ray:

No, they don't understand the creator economy or like online businesses because

Ray:

maybe they've been working with brick and mortar or high net worth individuals

Ray:

or, they're not an ideal fit for these people that are starting new businesses.

Ray:

And there's such a low barrier to getting into business now that if

Ray:

you're not staying up, consistently with what's going on, you can really

Ray:

quickly, I think, become out of touch with the needs of online businesses.

Ray:

A hundred percent.

Ray:

We have so many clients and we've seen it even with.

Ray:

Our own colleagues.

Ray:

Right.

Ray:

Like even when before we launched Inflow, like when we told 'em

Ray:

like who we wanted to work with.

Ray:

Yeah.

Ray:

They were like, Oh, okay.

Ray:

It doesn't seem like the ideal clientele.

Ray:

And we were like kind of offended by that.

Ray:

We were like, what do you mean ideal clientele?

Ray:

Like it's small business owners like cuz like traditionally in like.

Ray:

Business firm, like business legal firms, like they're working with huge

Ray:

corporations and it's kind of that way because it pays the bills, right?

Ray:

Right.

Ray:

Pays the legal firm's bills.

Ray:

Right.

Ray:

And traditionally, like working with small business owners,

Ray:

never worked for that model that traditional law firms worked on.

Ray:

So obviously we had a new model that we knew, felt confident would one benefit

Ray:

small business owners, but also create a sustainable business for ourselves.

Ray:

Yeah.

Ray:

And that's just, and they kind of like that.

Ray:

What we heard from our colleagues, but this is also with clients who

Ray:

try to work with, other people in their profession as well.

Ray:

Yeah.

Ray:

Where they're like, Oh.

Ray:

How's that small?

Ray:

Like how's that little business of yours going?

Ray:

Yeah, like almost like chastising you, like if you're an online

Ray:

business owner or if you're, a health coach or whatever it may be.

Ray:

Some of these more like new and upcoming industries where people approach

Ray:

accountants and they're like, Oh, like how don't even know that could be a business.

Ray:

Yeah.

Ray:

How do you make money?

Ray:

It's just very funny.

Ray:

Did

Gabe:

you get a lot of pushback when you kind of first started, or was it

Gabe:

just colleagues and just in general?

Katelyn:

Less so because I had been in the virtual coaching space kind of before

Katelyn:

that, getting coaching from someone.

Katelyn:

So I knew that there were other businesses around.

Katelyn:

My family still doesn't fully understand what I do, like my

Katelyn:

parents, which is hilarious.

Katelyn:

Cause like they're in their fifties, they're not the point where, but

Katelyn:

they don't have any social media.

Katelyn:

My mom actually like goes on to Instagram to read my posts every

Katelyn:

day, but like, has to go to the website cause she doesn't have it.

Katelyn:

Which is cute.

Katelyn:

. It was more getting them to understand, even though they've been business

Katelyn:

owners, like who are you working with?

Katelyn:

You're working with people that do like money mindset coaching and

Katelyn:

like if it wasn't a tangible, like photographers, they understand, right?

Katelyn:

Yeah.

Katelyn:

But a lot of the digital mindset coaches or business coaches are

Katelyn:

like, But like what do they do?

Katelyn:

What do you do for them?

Katelyn:

How does this work?

Katelyn:

And I'm like, It does, cuz there's a ton of them and they need a lot of

Katelyn:

help because they're, I had someone.

Katelyn:

I was a copywriter and her uncle, she was making six figures, multiple six figures.

Katelyn:

Oh yeah.

Katelyn:

Supporting her family and her uncle, who is an accountant who had been doing her

Katelyn:

books, basically went, That's cute, honey.

Katelyn:

Like, how's that little business of yours going?

Katelyn:

And I'm like, She's paying the bills for her entire house.

Katelyn:

Can we just stop?

Katelyn:

Like, just cause it doesn't look like what your version of successful business is.

Gabe:

Right.

Gabe:

Absolutely.

Gabe:

And that, and I think that, again, it goes back to that perception

Gabe:

of kind of what people do and this whole new creator economy.

Gabe:

Yeah, I mean we, we've gotten like little comments like that too, like,

Gabe:

from these attorneys that we've, we know and been working with.

Gabe:

And when I tried to explain to them, Inflow does.

Gabe:

Sometimes it's hard, just like you said it's difficult to

Gabe:

kind of get them to understand.

Gabe:

But once I kind of lay it down and kind of explain the creator economy, they're

Gabe:

like, Oh, okay, that makes sense.

Gabe:

But at first when I, tell 'em, they're like, Oh, so

Gabe:

you're like a TikTok attorney?

Gabe:

I'm like, Well, it's not just that.

Gabe:

Yeah.

Gabe:

I mean, that, that's a part of it.

Gabe:

But yeah, it's, I definitely think we.

Gabe:

I mean, breaking barriers here, I mean, really.

Gabe:

Or maybe not even breaking barriers, but maybe moving some of these, you.

Gabe:

Traditional fields into the modern world, right into the modern age.

Gabe:

. And I think that's the hardest thing, especially I'm sure in accounting.

Gabe:

I'm sure in the legal world where it's been so gate keep, right,

Gabe:

There's so much gate keeping for decades, centuries, Right.

Gabe:

That it's almost hard for them to understand that.

Gabe:

Like, Hey, wait a second.

Gabe:

You wanna have your clients.

Gabe:

Do that.

Gabe:

Like you wanna empower your clients to do that.

Gabe:

Why don't you charge them and you do that?

Gabe:

And it's like, no, Because at the end of the day, it makes our job easier too.

Gabe:

Right.

Gabe:

Selfishly on that side, but at the same time, it's empowering our clients

Gabe:

to be able to do it themselves and understand kind of what they're doing.

Gabe:

Like you said It's more about understanding.

Gabe:

Yeah.

Katelyn:

And we also want our clients to work with us because

Katelyn:

they value and respect our expertise and our services that we provide.

Katelyn:

And I also find that's so much easier to do.

Katelyn:

If they have more of a base understanding of what the hell we're actually doing.

Katelyn:

Right.

Katelyn:

And so part of the empowerment and education A is, yeah.

Katelyn:

So that but whether you work with us for a month or for five years

Katelyn:

when you leave, you should be better off than when you came on with us.

Katelyn:

It's always my goal because I don't, I mean, we've worked with some

Katelyn:

people for five, six years now.

Katelyn:

I'd love to work with them forever, but there's different seasons to your life.

Katelyn:

There's different, things that go on in your business and so I'm always trying

Katelyn:

to make them better than they were.

Katelyn:

Leave them better than they came in, and I think that can be a

Katelyn:

little bit mind boggling at times.

Katelyn:

Cause like why are you giving all of it away for free?

Katelyn:

Why are you telling people all the answers?

Katelyn:

For myself, I've absolutely gone on and gone through someone's

Katelyn:

information, been like, Yeah, I'm definitely not going to do that.

Katelyn:

Thank you for educating me.

Katelyn:

I need you to do that for me.

Katelyn:

Like, could I do this?

Katelyn:

Yes.

Katelyn:

Do I have any desire to?

Katelyn:

Absolutely not, but I now have a better understanding of what I don't want

Katelyn:

to do, so that I'm more appreciative of what's being done for me.

Ray:

Yeah.

Ray:

And I just love, I mean, one, it's needed, right?

Ray:

So I love.

Ray:

What you're doing is just being able to bring it to the masses.

Ray:

Right?

Ray:

The way we are looking at it is like we, we democratize like legal access.

Ray:

We look at you and you're democratizing, like working with a tax professional and

Ray:

whatever situation that may be like and we are always trying to encourage like

Ray:

more lawyers to do that because just from like, like even switching the mindset of

Ray:

like going from just like wanting to help people, but like, just like the bus, this

Ray:

is a massive business opportunity, right?

Ray:

It is a huge void in the fact that, most of our traditional backgrounds,

Ray:

right, like business lawyers right, have worked with only 10% of everyone who

Ray:

needs to work with a business lawyer.

Ray:

So this is 90% of people who could work with Inflow or anyone who's

Ray:

doing anything adjacent to us.

Ray:

Yeah.

Ray:

Which I'm sure is the same situation for you.

Ray:

I look at it in my industry and look at like, there's probably like so many

Ray:

people who need a family lawyer who just don't have access to a family

Ray:

lawyer who like probably don't even need like representation in a huge.

Ray:

For 12 months.

Ray:

But maybe it's just like an uncontested one, and it's something that's gonna be

Ray:

more simple, but there's no resources out for that out there for them.

Ray:

Right?

Ray:

And there's no one to really work with them.

Ray:

So I think there's an opportunity there.

Ray:

I also look at it as, Trust in estates, most people probably need a will.

Ray:

They probably, there's like ways for them to kind of figure out how to work

Ray:

with the trust in estates attorney.

Ray:

That's probably really needed for their situation, but have nowhere to like, no

Ray:

idea who to start with and like, because it's not, hasn't been made accessible

Ray:

yet, but they just need to know.

Ray:

Right.

Ray:

It's kind of like that education.

Ray:

Aspect is so important that we don't see happening.

Ray:

So we see prison opportunities everywhere in most situations

Ray:

where people have been working with traditional, lawyers, accountants, tax

Ray:

professionals, whatever it may be, I'm sure there's count is more out there.

Ray:

So anyone who's listening, if your industry, if you feel like your industry's

Ray:

deeply, like not providing access to.

Ray:

A large part of the population then maybe should try and fill that because

Ray:

there's huge opportunity there.

Ray:

Right.

Ray:

We just have to look at the fact that where's tech spending their money, right?

Ray:

Like we look at the fact that legal Zoom there's a lot of different, tech

Ray:

companies are trying to get their hands on providing and servicing that 90%.

Ray:

Cause it's a huge market that's just being neglected as I'm sure has already happened

Ray:

with, taxes, QuickBooks, things like that.

Ray:

Collective, like there's a lot of different people trying to

Ray:

get their hands on that huge.

Ray:

That individual tax professionals, individual attorneys don't even

Ray:

like just ignore, but it's out there and we just love seeing you

Ray:

take advantage of that as well.

Ray:

So.

Ray:

Well, and I think

Katelyn:

too, it's.

Katelyn:

If you don't think outside the box for a hot second, right?

Katelyn:

Because the whole point of traditional legal or traditional accounting

Katelyn:

not working for small businesses is because if you're trying to take the

Katelyn:

exact same packaging and the exact same way that you're selling it, no,

Katelyn:

it's gonna generally be inaccessible financially, like how it all works.

Katelyn:

And so that's where.

Katelyn:

If you take a second to just reconfigure what you're doing, like

Katelyn:

we don't bill hourly here, because that's my personal version of hell.

Katelyn:

I hate tracking my time.

Katelyn:

I hate, I'll do it sometimes if I need to learn like a new process.

Katelyn:

And so we have an idea of what we're doing, but we do project based fees

Katelyn:

because that's how I like to work.

Katelyn:

And then if I'm having a day where it takes me twice as long to do it, like,

Katelyn:

Oh, well I just wasn't in it that day.

Katelyn:

I can go take a break, come back, get the project done.

Katelyn:

But as a small business owner, I want to know what the fees are too, and I

Katelyn:

think that's something, especially in legal and accounting, having worked with.

Katelyn:

A property lawyer last year where you kind of dread getting a bill because

Katelyn:

at $400 an hour, it doesn't take very long for that to really add up.

Katelyn:

And you're like, Ooh, where is this gonna be?

Katelyn:

And there's that anxiety, right?

Katelyn:

That comes from pending bills plus, retainers or anything else

Katelyn:

that you need to put down to be able to work with someone.

Katelyn:

And so being able to say like, Hey, we're gonna make this in a way that's accessible

Katelyn:

so that we can get working together.

Katelyn:

And I know you guys are so big on this.

Katelyn:

Being proactive instead of reactive, because we can help head off a

Katelyn:

lot of problems, which I know some people would be like, Ugh, but you

Katelyn:

make money when there's problems.

Katelyn:

Yeah.

Katelyn:

But like I'd really rather not have to solve problems that could

Katelyn:

be avoided for so many reasons.

Katelyn:

Like, yes, problems will still come up.

Katelyn:

Like let's just see if we can navigate around them in the future

Katelyn:

instead of just diving straight into.

Gabe:

And it goes back to the kind of the prioritizing mental health, right?

Gabe:

I mean, our own mental health and is, Yes, absolutely.

Gabe:

Can we go out there and, make a ton of money doing whatever?

Gabe:

Yeah, absolutely.

Gabe:

But at what cost?

Gabe:

And especially in our pres in our profession, you see, substance abuse

Gabe:

and depression and all these just horrible things that come from the, from.

Gabe:

The profession, the pressure, and the, Yeah, I mean there really is just

Gabe:

more the pressure of what attorneys do and never really kind of taking

Gabe:

that step back and saying, Wait, yeah, sure, I could bill this person,

Gabe:

10 grand, 20 grand to do this, but.

Gabe:

And do I wanna put myself through that trauma?

Gabe:

Because I, it sometimes is traumatic, right?

Gabe:

Like I, a lot of business owners don't think about it like that.

Gabe:

But, just think back to like when you've had, a tough customer where you knew that

Gabe:

customer was gonna be a kind of a, a.

Gabe:

A pain in the ass from the very beginning, and sure enough, they're consistently

Gabe:

calling, trying to threaten, reviews or legal action and all that stuff

Gabe:

that by the time you get done with it, you're like, Oh my God, that's I.

Gabe:

It was terrified.

Gabe:

So I own a tattoo shop.

Gabe:

Right.

Gabe:

And obviously, every once in a while it comes up where you have these

Gabe:

horrible clients that just like, they wanna take advantage of the process

Gabe:

and the, and just, they're just bad.

Gabe:

And I think the way you know we're doing it, and you're doing

Gabe:

it, is you're prioritizing.

Gabe:

Our happiness, right, Our mental health.

Gabe:

And in, in return it, we are able to help clients in a more positive

Gabe:

way than if we are just grumpy and kind of jaded all the time.

Gabe:

And like, Oh my God, alright, yes, I'll do that for you, but I'm gonna charge

Gabe:

you this much because I don't wanna do it, but you know, I'll charge you for it.

Gabe:

And that's just a horrible way to do business just in general.

Katelyn:

No, it really is, and I think it also leads to like, I mean, the

Katelyn:

bigger conversation on like pricing and services and everything that

Katelyn:

you can be providing, but I think.

Katelyn:

, it's really easy to look at the money and be like, Well, I could, yeah, I

Katelyn:

could make 10 grand on this project.

Katelyn:

I could do this.

Katelyn:

, do we want to, Does it align with our values?

Katelyn:

Right.

Katelyn:

And that's something that, I, I think so many people woke up

Katelyn:

to more during the pandemic.

Katelyn:

I know that's some of what went viral for me on TikTok was talking

Katelyn:

about, our work week and like mental health and prioritizing.

Katelyn:

For accountants, I'm looking at all these job postings that

Katelyn:

are coming through, right?

Katelyn:

Cause I, I get recruiters that reach out to me that are like, Hey, we have

Katelyn:

these seven candidates looking for jobs.

Katelyn:

And it's been so interesting as we're coming up on the start of

Katelyn:

tax season to see a lot of these.

Katelyn:

Junior to senior level tax managers, tax repairers that are specifying

Katelyn:

the maximum number of hours they wanna work during tax season, and

Katelyn:

some of them are 45, 50, 60 hours.

Katelyn:

But the fact that they're specifying, I'm looking for somewhere that I

Katelyn:

can work 60 hours or less during the busy season, just threw me

Katelyn:

back to working corporate working.

Katelyn:

That is my nightmare.

Katelyn:

And we don't wanna do that here.

Katelyn:

I think the busiest week that I have during tax season is 45

Katelyn:

hours, and that is maybe two weeks.

Katelyn:

And that's really pushing it.

Katelyn:

And if that happens the next year, we're figuring out how to avoid that.

Katelyn:

How can we get it down to 42 next year?

Katelyn:

Do we need to take fewer clients on?

Katelyn:

Do we need to, have services that are more of a value add for what we're doing?

Katelyn:

I don't show up my best if I'm working more than that.

Katelyn:

, I don't think any of us do.

Katelyn:

And I think it's this fallacy that like, Oh, you're working

Katelyn:

a hundred hour week for kpmg.

Katelyn:

Are you really like getting a hundred hours worth of productivity done?

Katelyn:

And like, how are you as a human being and how long does this last?

Katelyn:

And when do you burn out and have adrenal fatigue and everything else

Katelyn:

going on and you just fizzle and.

Katelyn:

Ah

Ray:

that's right.

Ray:

Yeah.

Ray:

And you know what I admire about you, Caitlin, is that, as skilled as you

Ray:

are as a tax professional I, you're not afraid to put your entrepreneurial hat on.

Ray:

Right?

Ray:

And what I mean by that, a lot of people think like that's a bad word or something.

Ray:

But what I mean by that is that as an entrepreneur, you're always thinking

Ray:

about, the client experience, right?

Ray:

And the value you're providing your clients and doing so, and also

Ray:

respecting yourself, knowing that you're an entrepreneur, that you can.

Ray:

The work you do to provide the, like create the environment that

Ray:

you wanna work in and your team works in that I think that a lot

Ray:

of people sometimes avoid, Right.

Ray:

And I think just like naturally in our industries, and I understand

Ray:

that not everyone listening here is either a tax professional or a lawyer.

Ray:

But this happens in, this applies to every business, right?

Ray:

Is just putting that.

Ray:

Entrepreneur hat on and doing so when you know, like your

Ray:

competitors probably aren't, right?

Ray:

Like a lot more lawyers don't do that because they see themselves

Ray:

as, even if they have their own law firm, they're like, Oh, I'm

Ray:

just, I'm a practicing attorney.

Ray:

I'm not a business owner.

Ray:

Right, Right.

Ray:

But they are, at the end of the day, they are a business owner.

Ray:

You have employees, you have a business, and you run a business

Ray:

and you exchange services for money.

Ray:

Right.

Ray:

Like that's a business.

Ray:

Yeah.

Ray:

And I think when you think about it that way, you're thinking about, Providing

Ray:

services in the best way, right?

Ray:

Like not no hourly billing, flat fee projects.

Ray:

We have a subscription model, you have a subscription model, and

Ray:

like bringing in education aspects to that and things like that.

Ray:

So, just getting into that, like, that's a segue to like your services.

Ray:

Tell us a little bit about, and tell us our audience about the services,

Ray:

how does someone work with you or, what are your different options

Ray:

and how they can work with you?

Katelyn:

Yeah I would say, We have, yeah, several different layers.

Katelyn:

We have a subscription program that's, monthly, what you guys

Katelyn:

have with some different support tiers that is newer to us.

Katelyn:

We're putting out both personal and business information in there, so, once

Katelyn:

a month we're covering a relevant topic.

Katelyn:

We did retirement accounts both for, self-employed and

Katelyn:

traditionally employed individuals.

Katelyn:

You all are gonna be in there this next week, which I'm, so excited for.

Katelyn:

And.

Katelyn:

I've, chatted about tax returns.

Katelyn:

Understand like being able to read a tax return because I found out over the last

Katelyn:

few years, I would send a return out, say, Hey, I need you to review this and

Katelyn:

let me know if you have any questions.

Katelyn:

Make sure you're good with.

Katelyn:

And they'd say, Yep, I'm good with it.

Katelyn:

And then it would come back that there hadn't been a W2 provided to us.

Katelyn:

Their return was wrong.

Katelyn:

I have no way of knowing that they had no way of understanding if their return was

Katelyn:

correct because they didn't have the base knowledge and that was not communicated.

Katelyn:

And so we're trying to find these holes again in education and empowerment

Katelyn:

to be walking you through, hey, there's like 30 lines on your 10 40.

Katelyn:

We can totally break those down so that you have a base understanding

Katelyn:

cuz whether you're doing, returns with us or someone else, or your.

Katelyn:

You need to know what the information is there.

Katelyn:

Cause there's nothing more stressful than getting a letter from the irs and.

Katelyn:

I have no idea.

Katelyn:

I don't even know how to verify this.

Katelyn:

So that's one way.

Katelyn:

That's our group Money Mavens.

Katelyn:

And like I said, we do something every month in there.

Katelyn:

And then a lot of clients, and I would say really our bread and butter right

Katelyn:

now has been Associate bookkeeping.

Katelyn:

And that is a retainer subscription where you're getting your annual tax

Katelyn:

filing, you're getting your business bookkeeping, you are getting, any of

Katelyn:

the maintenance that needs to be done.

Katelyn:

Sales tax or accounting cleanup v support, which is a walkie-talkie app,

Katelyn:

so that again, we can be accessible.

Katelyn:

You're not having to send an email and wait three weeks to hear back from your

Katelyn:

accountant and then get a random bill in the mail for the 30 minutes they

Katelyn:

spent, giving you that information.

Katelyn:

Instead, you can send us a message and generally within a day or two we'll say,

Katelyn:

Hey, here's our thoughts on this, or like, Here's what we do in your shoes.

Katelyn:

And it's great because so many of us are on the.

Katelyn:

And we had someone ask like, Hey, I got a parking ticket.

Katelyn:

Is this a business expense or personal?

Katelyn:

And we could ask three questions and then let them know what card to use.

Katelyn:

And so it's just so nice for peace of mind because that is part of

Katelyn:

the learning experience too though.

Katelyn:

Even though we're doing in their books, they need to be making sure that they're

Katelyn:

keeping business and personal separate.

Katelyn:

So how do they do that?

Katelyn:

How do they navigate like, Hey, I'm looking to hire, I have no idea

Katelyn:

what I need to know about this.

Katelyn:

Like run it.

Katelyn:

And so that's, we work with a lot of clients at that level.

Katelyn:

Primarily sole proprietors, single member LLCs and LLCs with SCOR

Katelyn:

elections and some partnerships.

Katelyn:

We work with a lot of LLCs with S corp elections and then

Katelyn:

we have a la carte services.

Katelyn:

So, I'm not ready to do that yet.

Katelyn:

My budget doesn't allow for it, but I need my accounting set up and I

Katelyn:

need to be trained on how to use it.

Katelyn:

Cool.

Katelyn:

We've got you.

Katelyn:

We'll do training.

Katelyn:

We have some support.

Katelyn:

We'll get it all nice and tidy, and then you can run with it.

Katelyn:

And we're here for questions or, Hey, I just need my taxes filed, but I

Katelyn:

need to have a call with you because I don't know if my accounting's right.

Katelyn:

Did I write off things that I shouldn't write off, did I?

Katelyn:

And it's normally one of the two, right?

Katelyn:

Either someone writes everything off and you.

Katelyn:

Or they're like missing $10,000 in things they could be writing off cuz

Katelyn:

they're terrified of going to jail.

Katelyn:

And so those are kind of the three main buckets that our clients fall into.

Katelyn:

We have some, outsourced CFO and some higher level accounting and bookkeeping

Katelyn:

for businesses making over 500,000 a year.

Katelyn:

But the majority of our business owners are making like 50 to 250,000 a year.

Katelyn:

Yeah.

Gabe:

Got you.

Gabe:

Yeah.

Gabe:

Cool.

Gabe:

And that's, yeah, and that's exactly I think what makes, your services

Gabe:

so special because Yeah, it's the accessibility of it, right?

Gabe:

Because absolutely, yes, there's gonna be companies that are, making over half

Gabe:

a million and up, but the majority of the clients, like you mentioned, are in the

Gabe:

kind of the 50,000 and up range, right?

Gabe:

And I think, again, those are the ones that.

Gabe:

Usually being kind of just dismissed, right?

Gabe:

Like, especially, I think I'm thinking back, when I was working at like Best Buy

Gabe:

and stuff and I would have to do my taxes and it's like, okay, well do I go to, h

Gabe:

and r Block and then just have them do it?

Gabe:

And then I did that a couple times and started noticing that they

Gabe:

were just literally just plugging in what I was telling them.

Gabe:

And I was like, Well, I could probably do that online.

Gabe:

And then, you know what I mean?

Gabe:

Realizing there's just so much more that you don't understand and there's

Gabe:

so many tax incentives and just ways to, protect yourself as a business owner.

Gabe:

Because I think that's one of the key things that we're always talking

Gabe:

about and trying to educate people about, not commingling funds.

Gabe:

And I think.

Gabe:

Without an accountant and without some education around that.

Gabe:

That's the easiest mistake that any business or any LLC owner can

Gabe:

make is co-mingling those funds.

Gabe:

Not realizing that they're co-mingling funds.

Gabe:

So I think the educational part of it hits home, with us,

Gabe:

especially with what you're.

Katelyn:

No, I couldn't agree more.

Katelyn:

The commingling funds is probably my number one, of my like five

Katelyn:

commandments for accounting.

Katelyn:

It's like even if you're a sole proprietor, set up a separate business

Katelyn:

like you, a separate business account, you can have an ein, like just dedicate it

Katelyn:

and run everything through that account.

Katelyn:

A, because it's a good business practice.

Katelyn:

B, when you're an llc, you really need to be doing that.

Katelyn:

But see, let's say you're not doing your accounting right, you're just.

Katelyn:

Going, which so many business owners do.

Katelyn:

You get to the end of the year and you're like, I'm panicking.

Katelyn:

I need help.

Katelyn:

I need someone to do my accounting.

Katelyn:

It's gonna cost you a lot less.

Katelyn:

If you have everything in one account and we know it's all business, then,

Katelyn:

and this is a true story, If you come to me and you're like, Hey, I have a

Katelyn:

everything spread across 12 accounts and it's personal and business and I

Katelyn:

don't know what everything is in there.

Katelyn:

And so then you get to go through and line out all the business transactions

Katelyn:

because we're not gonna know if your Amazon is business or personal and it can.

Katelyn:

Weeks, hours, it's a mess.

Katelyn:

It's stressful.

Katelyn:

So yeah, I think if you took nothing away from the entire conversation,

Katelyn:

it would be please don't co-mingle and keep a dedicated account.

Ray:

And I don't wanna put you on the spot, but following back up on those five

Ray:

commandments of account of accounting can you share that with the audience?

Ray:

Oh God.

Ray:

Okay.

Ray:

We're gonna see, Or he's just figure speech.

Ray:

I don't wanna make you just

Katelyn:

think about it.

Katelyn:

It's five that I always hit on.

Katelyn:

So let's think if I.

Katelyn:

Nail them down.

Katelyn:

So, number one, I always recommend registering your business, whether it's a

Katelyn:

sole proprietor or a single member LLC or whatever, whatever you should be doing.

Katelyn:

Because you also then get an EIN number.

Katelyn:

You can open a business bank account, like it's just setting something up.

Katelyn:

. And I think the mindset side of it is that you're not just a hobby business.

Katelyn:

And I think so many people, I've actually had people that have been in

Katelyn:

business for 20 years operating as a sole prop under their name, and we get

Katelyn:

them registered as an llc and they're like, They have this huge shift.

Katelyn:

Yeah.

Katelyn:

Cause they feel official.

Katelyn:

And in the majority of states it's not terribly expensive.

Katelyn:

Of course.

Katelyn:

We have California and Massachusetts and a few others, Illinois, I think,

Katelyn:

that are kind of cost prohibitive.

Katelyn:

Open, dedicated bank.

Katelyn:

100% have a consult to know what you don't know.

Katelyn:

And so that can be a lot of things, right?

Katelyn:

Generally, and I didn't have anyone in the legal arena to recommend

Katelyn:

them to until we found you guys.

Katelyn:

Because I know what I do a lot of is one couple hundred dollars call

Katelyn:

with, us or training or whatever can set you up for the next two.

Katelyn:

Yeah, and it's such a small expense in the grand scheme of things, but people I think

Katelyn:

get scared because they think they're gonna have to have calls all the time,

Katelyn:

or what if I need to spend more money and like, I don't have that right now.

Katelyn:

I'm just getting going.

Katelyn:

That can make such a difference.

Katelyn:

Like, Hey, we don't need to, like you've got this, you have a good system in place.

Katelyn:

You're using Google Sheets for your accounting.

Katelyn:

I don't care.

Katelyn:

It's totally fine.

Katelyn:

Whatever system works when you get to this.

Katelyn:

, you should reach out to us because X, Y, and Z.

Katelyn:

Or like on the legal side, hey, I need to make sure that I've gotten

Katelyn:

all of this set up properly, that I have the contract in place.

Katelyn:

Cuz I know people that maybe just got going and are like, I have no one to

Katelyn:

reach out to that I feel like I can pay to get me set up for all of this.

Katelyn:

And of course, I don't remember the other two, but those are like

Katelyn:

the three main ones for getting yourself taken care of and.

Katelyn:

I mean, side note, I think you should always be reviewing your pricing,

Katelyn:

your services, your offerings.

Katelyn:

. So we'll get five, and you should always be setting money aside for

Katelyn:

taxes and understanding how much to be setting aside for taxes, because

Katelyn:

self-employed taxes that first year.

Katelyn:

If you made a good profit, maybe you jumped out of a W2 position and

Katelyn:

you're not aware that like, Oh, I looked at my pay stubs before, Like I

Katelyn:

know about what I need to be setting aside absolutely false 99% of the

Katelyn:

time and there is nothing worse.

Katelyn:

I've seen people that have come on with us, like we have to work on a three year

Katelyn:

plan to dig them out of a hole because maybe they got, they just k killed it.

Katelyn:

Their first year they had a hundred thousand dollars in profit and

Katelyn:

they were a sole proprietor and they didn't catch it until later.

Katelyn:

Number one, you're losing money not having an S corp election.

Katelyn:

You then paid more on your taxes.

Katelyn:

You probably set 20,000 aside.

Katelyn:

You probably needed significantly more than that.

Katelyn:

And what if you live in an expensive state that has high state income tax?

Katelyn:

So making sure, and that kind of goes with the consult.

Katelyn:

But even if you're not doing it right, you can't, it's not accessible, whatever.

Katelyn:

I'd say at a minimum, 30% of all of your revenue should be set aside, like

Katelyn:

top line revenue, not profit, because.

Katelyn:

Hopefully you should always have enough.

Katelyn:

And I think that's something that people really struggle with, especially

Katelyn:

in the first year or two when you're, kind of payment to bank account, to

Katelyn:

personal bank account, hopefully, Right?

Katelyn:

Cause we're running through that business account.

Katelyn:

And every dollar matters.

Katelyn:

And so there's nothing worse than getting to the end of the year and

Katelyn:

being like, Ooh, every dollar mattered and I now owe the IRS $10,000.

Katelyn:

, it happens.

Katelyn:

They have great payment plan options.

Katelyn:

I think it's actually one of the things the IRS does really well, and most

Katelyn:

states have payment plan options too.

Katelyn:

So like you can dig yourself out, but then you're trying to catch up the next year

Katelyn:

and the year after and it just, it takes a while to get that going and I think it can

Katelyn:

cause kind of a shame spiral for a lot of businesses that could be easily avoided.

Ray:

Yeah.

Ray:

And that was super valuable.

Ray:

I think that's gonna be a huge part, like just value add for our clients

Ray:

who we listen or audience who listens.

Ray:

So thanks for sharing that.

Ray:

I have another question, not to put you on the spot, but as a business owner

Ray:

we wear a lot of hats and, it requires a lot of skills and sometimes we're

Ray:

working on certain skills and sometimes there are superpowers we have, right?

Ray:

What is, becoming an entrepreneur?

Ray:

What was your superpower?

Ray:

You would.

Ray:

As a business owner.

Ray:

And what was a skill that you had to kind of, kind of learn?

Ray:

Cause I think a lot of people who start their business get

Ray:

blindsided by all the hats.

Ray:

They do have to wear all the roles they have to kind of play in their business.

Ray:

Especially someone who, has a team.

Ray:

I'm sure like there's a lot more skills that need to come into play, like

Ray:

leadership, delegation, things like that.

Ray:

So, I'm interested in hearing, what your superpower is and a skill that,

Ray:

you had to develop over time in your business and maybe still are working.

Katelyn:

So I'm gonna give one superpower and two skills that I've had to work on

Katelyn:

cuz it's changed now that I have a team.

Katelyn:

So when I first got started, I think my superpower was being able to explain

Katelyn:

relatively complex topics in a way that is approachable and accessible.

Katelyn:

And that's something that I still see really talented accountants

Katelyn:

that they can talk to me and I can understand and it's like, dude,

Katelyn:

you need to like break it down.

Katelyn:

Like you're brilliant and I know that, but no one else has an I

Katelyn:

like any idea what you're saying.

Katelyn:

Ironically, communication was also something that I had to work on because

Katelyn:

for me, and this has been a work in progress really over the last five years,

Katelyn:

being able to communicate with clients more than I think I need to, even if,

Katelyn:

because I know what's going on, right?

Katelyn:

We're doing a payroll setup.

Katelyn:

It might take a couple weeks because the state has been backed up for God

Katelyn:

knows how long, and we're waiting on payroll accounts to come through.

Katelyn:

The client has no idea unless I tell them that's what's going on.

Katelyn:

So I'm here chilling, doing all my other stuff.

Katelyn:

The client sitting here going like, Hey, what the hell man?

Katelyn:

Like, I haven't heard from you in two weeks.

Katelyn:

Well, cuz you're not gonna hear from me until I have something to tell you.

Katelyn:

And so for me, learning to set expectations with clients via

Katelyn:

communication, Hey, this process from start to finish will probably take

Katelyn:

about this long and then updating.

Katelyn:

Hey, we've sent these things in.

Katelyn:

We're waiting.

Katelyn:

I expect it to be about this long.

Katelyn:

I'll reach out to you the next time that I have an update, but, reach

Katelyn:

out with questions in the meantime.

Katelyn:

And that was something that took a lot of practice and I'm

Katelyn:

significantly better at it now.

Katelyn:

I maintain an inbox zero the majority of the time.

Katelyn:

I cleaned it out at Christmas a couple years ago and I've stuck

Katelyn:

with it since, which has been great.

Katelyn:

But it's something that I have to be constantly putting myself

Katelyn:

in the client's shoes because I've had that happen too, right?

Katelyn:

Where like I'm working with.

Katelyn:

And I reach out to them and I'm like, Hey, like I had a website designer, right?

Katelyn:

Hey, where are we at?

Katelyn:

Like, I don't need this right this second.

Katelyn:

But I'm also worried like, are you missing something from me?

Katelyn:

Is there something that I should be doing?

Katelyn:

And I think some of us hit our own anxiety when we don't have, we have ambiguity.

Katelyn:

. And now that I feel that the communication side has been mostly rectified, we'll say.

Katelyn:

As I've been growing a team, leadership skills are something that have been.

Katelyn:

at the forefront of what I'm working on developing.

Katelyn:

Like I work with a performance coach.

Katelyn:

All of our team members work with a performance coach.

Katelyn:

We are constantly trying to.

Katelyn:

Figure out what this company looks like for us.

Katelyn:

Not just my vision for it, but we're driving it forward as a team.

Katelyn:

And that takes team input, which is easy enough, but it's also, I don't wanna

Katelyn:

give what i's negative feedback, right?

Katelyn:

Like I don't love diving into conflict.

Katelyn:

It doesn't get me excited, that stresses me out.

Katelyn:

But what's worse is not giving a team member constructive feedback, sitting

Katelyn:

on it for three months and then.

Katelyn:

Ugh, Now I'm resentful, upset the team member.

Katelyn:

Doesn't feel like they are where they need to be.

Katelyn:

When I could have probably had some conversations earlier on that

Katelyn:

would've been a little uncomfortable, but a lot more comfortable

Katelyn:

than like where we've been now.

Katelyn:

. And so addressing that has been really the challenge over the last

Katelyn:

few years and diving into being uncomfortable sometimes, which I don't

Katelyn:

think any of us love having to do.

Katelyn:

Yeah.

Ray:

Yeah.

Ray:

And I think it just goes to show you that like it's always, it's

Ray:

grow, it's constant growth, right?

Ray:

It's constant learning.

Ray:

It's constant growth.

Ray:

When you are taking on the challenge of being a business owner, being an

Ray:

entrepreneur, who's going to, especially if you're billing out a team, right?

Ray:

Like, I think everything 10 x is right.

Ray:

obviously like the organization, 10 x is like everything,

Ray:

the amount of communications happening, 10 X's, and you're just.

Ray:

Your roles and responsibilities kind of grow with that.

Ray:

So, that's, yeah.

Ray:

Thanks for sharing that.

Gabe:

Yeah, absolutely.

Gabe:

And so I, I have one thing that we're gonna, obviously wanna respect your time

Gabe:

and, we'll wrap this up, but if you had.

Gabe:

Kind of one piece of advice that you would give a solopreneur, right?

Gabe:

Someone who's just right now at home, scrolling through social media

Gabe:

and saying like, I want to do this and I want to, go for my passion.

Gabe:

What kind of one piece of advice would you give that solopreneur?

Gabe:

That's right on the edge of starting their business.

Katelyn:

God, I feel like I have three.

Katelyn:

Oh.

Katelyn:

Okay, so number one would be to start.

Katelyn:

Even if it's small, even if you have a day job right now, even if you only

Katelyn:

take one client on, I think so many of us get stuck in perfection or analysis

Katelyn:

paralysis and not making the jump and where your business is when you

Katelyn:

start will probably not be the same business that it is in three years.

Katelyn:

In six years, you'll tweak, you'll make changes, you'll evolve,

Katelyn:

you'll grow, and that's fine.

Katelyn:

But you can't do that if you don't start and you wait for

Katelyn:

every single thing to be in place.

Katelyn:

Number two would be, I'm gonna be a broken record here, set

Katelyn:

up a separate bank account.

Katelyn:

I don't care if you're just dabbling and it's an Etsy hobby.

Katelyn:

There are plenty of free checking account options that you can open

Katelyn:

online, run every single thing through the business for that.

Katelyn:

And then number three, and this really goes for everyone, but especially

Katelyn:

when you become self-employed, retirement, I cannot recommend.

Katelyn:

Setting up something literally today that you can be putting $50, $25, I don't care.

Katelyn:

It could be $5, but the amount of business owners that I work with that haven't,

Katelyn:

that either don't have retirement or that haven't started their retirement back

Katelyn:

since they left corporate seven years ago.

Katelyn:

and they're stressing about it.

Katelyn:

When you could have had something, I do something that you won't miss, like what

Katelyn:

feels like something you can ignore.

Katelyn:

$25.

Katelyn:

Cool.

Katelyn:

Set it there.

Katelyn:

Give it three months, bump it up again.

Katelyn:

Five years from now you'll be at what, $400 a month or something and

Katelyn:

it'll just be automated and going.

Katelyn:

And that I think is something that a lot of us that are self-employed miss out.

Katelyn:

Then you stress about, then you go into a shame spiral and then you

Katelyn:

still don't do anything about it.

Katelyn:

And then you're 50 and you don't have retirement, and you're like,

Katelyn:

Cool, I'm gonna work until I die.

Gabe:

Yeah.

Ray:

That's great.

Gabe:

That's great advice.

Gabe:

Yes.

Gabe:

Thank you so much.

Gabe:

And Caitlin, thank you for joining us today.

Gabe:

It's been such a pleasure having you and obviously it's always

Gabe:

a pleasure working with you.

Gabe:

Again, how, what Ray mentioned is it's rare to find sometimes, people, right?

Gabe:

Not necessarily businesses, although you are a business, but people that kind

Gabe:

of mirror, our values and kind of the same mission that we're trying to do.

Gabe:

And it's been so, we're so fortunate to have found you and you're

Gabe:

always a pleasure to talk to.

Gabe:

And thank you again for

Ray:

joining us.

Ray:

Yeah.

Ray:

And please, no, I got, Yeah, and please let our audience know, like

Ray:

where they can find you, your website and we'll link all in the show notes.

Ray:

But if you wanna just, share a word with them, you

Katelyn:

can go ahead.

Katelyn:

Of course.

Katelyn:

So TikTok naturally we do have a business account that's the freelance cfo.

Katelyn:

But the one where I've gone viral and where I chat about kind of all things

Katelyn:

business owner and not just accounting.

Katelyn:

Is Caitlin, period.

Katelyn:

Magnuson the Instagram handles are the exact same for both of those.

Katelyn:

And then our website is the freelance cfo.biz, and we have everything in there,

Katelyn:

your contact page, your services, your courses, you name it, it's all in there.

Katelyn:

We make it, I think, really approachable and.

Katelyn:

I'm not sure my favorite quote from it cause we just redid it, was you

Katelyn:

may want your avocado toast to be white and crusty but you don't want

Katelyn:

your accountants to be and mic drop.

Katelyn:

Cause that was exactly what our clients come to us not wanting.

Ray:

I love it.

Ray:

That might be another for the trademark portfolio.

Ray:

For sure.

Ray:

And another thing is just like, I mean, thank you for sharing all

Ray:

that, but just how great you've been with building your personal brand

Ray:

and your actual business brand.

Ray:

I think that's a great example as well for our audience members to just take, Cause

Ray:

I always share the fact that how great of a job you've done on social media for your

Ray:

business and for you personally as well, that gives you the outlet to share more

Ray:

outside of just like your business scope but who you actually are and goes again.

Ray:

Just building trust and likability and stuff.

Ray:

So, yeah.

Ray:

Thank you.

Ray:

Thank you for all that.

Ray:

Thank you for being our first guest here.

Ray:

And we just, it was a great value add for us to learn more about you.

Ray:

So yeah, thank you again for sharing that with our audience.

Ray:

Yeah,

Katelyn:

of course.

Katelyn:

Thank

Gabe:

you guys.

Gabe:

Cool.

Gabe:

Thank you.

Gabe:

Oh man.

Gabe:

So thank you again, Caitlin, for jumping on and thanks for everybody for listening.

Gabe:

That was such great information.

Ray:

Yeah, totally was.

Ray:

We were super excited.

Ray:

That was like our first guest appearance and I'm so stoked for

Ray:

future guest appearances because if they bring as much game as Caitlin

Ray:

did in this first one, then I think we have a great podcast on our hands.

Ray:

Absolutely.

Ray:

So again,

Gabe:

thank you guys and make sure you're subscribing, on YouTube and

Gabe:

wherever you are streaming this podcast.

Gabe:

Cool.

Gabe:

So next time.

Gabe:

Oh

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About the Podcast

Rise & Flow
Inspiration from Top Creators and Business Owners
Hey there! Ray & Gabe here, your friendly neighborhood attorneys of in|flow law group! Join us as we interview multi-passionate entrepreneurs and creators who are willing to share their stories and how they were able to turn their passions into purpose! If you're an aspiring business owner or creator, you're not going to want to miss out on these episodes full of inspirational, educational, and empowering gems!

in|flow law group, is a law firm dedicated solely to creators and the modern day multi-passionate entrepreneur. We offer services to help empower our clients in protecting their business, building their brand, and prioritizing their intellectual property. We also offer a subscription based legal services, so every business can have access to an attorney - no matter the size. To learn more about our law firm, check us out at https://www.iminflow.com/

About your hosts

Rayman Khan

Profile picture for Rayman Khan
Ray is an easy going plant father and adventurous spirit. He heads up the brand strategy and contract practice areas for in|flow. His goal is to be the Anthony Bourdain of lawyers... whatever that means.
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Ray can help you secure a trademark, get your contracts aligned, and find the best spot in town to get dinner tonight. He's worked with creative and social entrepreneurs in the past, as well as serve as a climate policy advisor for the City of San Diego.

Ask him about his lunch with Desmond Tutu.

Leopoldo Estrada

Profile picture for Leopoldo Estrada
Gabe is a father, husband, business owner, and social media influencer! Oh yeah he’s an attorney too! His passion for art and music led him to open a successful tattoo shop that has been thriving for almost a decade. He’s also one of the biggest Star Wars fans you’ll meet, which landed him as an approved Disney/Lucasfilm social media influencer! His social media followings have over half a million followers and over 10 million views!

Besides helping you with all the legal stuff we do, Gabe’s experience in running a sustainable business and social media growth can be a lightsaber…oops, we mean a life saver for your project!

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